Does this sound like Williams?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
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<p>Hey. I had a post up that got lost but I had some great responses that were really helping me narrow down my choices & think about the schools I could fall in love with & apply to. So I’m re-writing!</p>

<p>I’m a sophomore at a university in the northeast majoring in English Lit (minors in History & Classical Civilization). While I don’t hate it I definitely feel it’s not the school for me, somewhat in terms of academics but definitely in terms of atmosphere & student body.</p>

<p>I’m not a big partyer/drinker & this school is! I’d love a school where the students’ interests vary, they attend on-campus events in high numbers, and also like going to the movies/day trip/hanging out with friends. I would also love to meet more people like me: non-apathetic, interested in learning & friendly. </p>

<p>I’d love to be heavily involved in 2-3 EC’s (esp. student events). I feel that this school not only has few EC’s to choose from but they’re not varied or well-attended. I’m not bothered about sports.</p>

<p>While academics come first for me, I don’t want to go crazy & spend 10 hrs a night on homework! I do want small classes (generally), great class discussions & personal attention from professors, although this doesn’t mean I’d like a school with only 1000 students. I’d also like to take classes outside my major such as Marketing, Design (Graphic, web etc.), Philosophy etc. However I know a lot of schools I’m interested in don’t offer Marketing; I’d sacrifice that for the ‘perfect’ school & just take summer classes.</p>

<p>The schools I’m researching right now are: Dartmouth (great transfer program but too much partying?), Haverford (great academics but too small?), Middlebury (great English dept. but too outdoorsy?), Brown (can design own curriculum, first choice at the moment), Trinity College (don’t know enough about it but has been recommended to me), WILLIAMS (good academics, friendly students, don’t know much else), Amherst (good academics, but not sure it’s a fit for me), Boston University (has Marketing classes, good location for travel & internships, not sure about student-body), Wesleyan (sounds a bit like Brown). Yes, it sounds like I'm Goldilocks.</p>

<p>My stats, if it’ll help:
HS-
Full IB program in England. 6, 5, 5, in highers
1200 old SAT- did very well on Verbal, terribly on Math cos I’m beyond bad at it
Lit and Writing SAT II- 700 & 640
Some EC’s but not a great deal but it was a non-American school in England</p>

<p>College-
3.81 GPA. Dean’s List all 3 semesters. 4.0 GPA in major
In honors program
In honors English
Heavily involved in 2 EC’s, in a couple more
Great teacher recs</p>

<p>If anyone could offer any insight on the schools, comments or suggestions I would appreciate it so much. Thanks!!</p>

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<p>I would say that Williams can be fairly described as a smaller version of Dartmouth. The classes will be smaller and more opportunity for engagement with professors. Academics are superb. However, the social scene is like Dartmouth's in that it is leans heavily towards drinking and partying. Like Middlebury, Williams is also heavily sports and "outdoorsy" oriented.</p>

<p>By and large, Williams, Dartmouth, and Middlebury appeal to the same general group of students. Of the three, I would chose Williams for its top-shelf academics.</p>

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<p>Hmm that is really interesting and thank you SO much for the comparisons. That really helps me. I'm on a pretty campus now and while I like & appreciate them, I'm not one to spend my free time camping or the like. I also don't mind the drinking/partying scene, it's just I'd prefer it if the student body did more of other stuff and less of that, although a 50/50 mix is fine. My school is about 80/20 in favor of frat parties. Are there any other differences/similarities in the atmosphere and student body? I know that D. has a great transfer program, although that probably isn't my biggest factor in choosing somewhere.</p>

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<p>Although you may not choose Dartmouth because of its great transfer program, I'd be wary of Williams because of its almost non-existent transfer program. From their website: </p>

<p>"Williams has a very limited number of places available for transfer candidates, and this number has been decreasing over the last several years. [In 2004 they accepted 6 transfers.]. . Preference is given to graduates of terminal two year institutions."</p>

<p>Chances aside, Williams has excellent academics, intellectually driven students and brilliant, accessible professors. I don't think that the drinking/partying is as much of a negative as is stereo-typed, but there is no doubt that sports and out-doorsy activities play are a big part of what kids do in their non-academic time. The major point of differentiation is that in addition to being athletes (or just physically active kids) Williams students are usually involved in some other activity like the arts (great museums, theater, music) or student government. These are energetic, multi-faceted kids.</p>

<p>With Brown as a benchmark, I think among LACs Weselyan would be a good choice as would Smith.</p>

<p>If you're worried about Greek influence on campus, then Dartmouth may not be a good choice for you.</p>

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<p>Wow only 6, and if that number is decreasing I'd only end up meeting 4-5 new people at orientation. Still, I'm sure most of the schools on my list have small numbers, but at least D'mouth has great opportunities to meet & bond in the first week. Williams does sound great academically but I'm now thinking the free-time activities aren't what I'd feel passionate about, and Williams seems to be a put more 'in the middle of nowhere' than say D'mouth & others. Yes, Wesleyan has been recommended to me so I'm hoping to collect more info on it. Thanks momrath!</p>

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<p>That's 6 accepted out of 79 transfer applicants in 2004. But...only 3 of those transfer students actually decided to enroll at Williams. There were only 4 enrolled transfer students in 2003, and 3 in 2002. Based on these numbers, there would only be 2-3 other transfer students to meet at orientation.</p>

<p>My recollection, as a Williams alum, is that transfer students at Williams tended to come from nearby schools, like Berkshire Community College (in Pittsfield) or Mass. College of Liberal Arts (in North Adams). It wouldn't surprise me if Williams has an informal policy that favors deserving local kids.</p>

<p>Other miscellaneous observations:</p>

<p>If Brown appeals to you, then you might also consider Wesleyan or Bates. Williams falls in with a different set of New England schools, the "remote and outdoorsy" group, along with Dartmouth, Midd, and Colby. </p>

<p>My suspicion is that all of the small, highly-ranked liberal colleges in New England will have limited openings for transfers. These are small schools to begin with, and they have high retention rates, so not much room for transfers. </p>

<p>Ivies like Brown or Dartmouth are larger, and probably have bigger transfer programs. My impression is that Ivies also have more emphasis on student organizations, clubs, frats, sororities, etc. This can lead to a livelier social environment; it can also lead to excessive partying and selective, snobby clubs and secret societies. Many liberal arts colleges (including Williams) have banned frats and similar organizations, while they flourish at Ivies.</p>

<p>Dartmouth students point to their Greek system as a major advantage over Williams. On the other hand, Williams students point to the absence of a Greek system as a major advantage over Dartmouth. It comes down to your personal preference.</p>

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<p>Thanks Corbett! At the moment, Brown is top of my list (curric., lively scene but not as big on drinking as where I am now, location). I really like the sound of Midd. but yes, I am worried about the too-outdoorsy-for-me thing, as well as far away from airports I'd fly in/out of. Wesleyan I'm still trying to get student info on! The brochure looks perfect of course. ;) Ditto with Haverford but I'm worried it could be too small for me (even though I'd only be there 2 years). D'mouth is out now; as great as it obviously is, it's too similar socially to where I am now. I hate to ask but as a recent alum what would you guestimate my chances are at the above?</p>

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<p>I have been out of college for a while, so my impressions may be out of date. But nonetheless...</p>

<p>Williams doesn't sound like the best fit for you. If you think Midd is too outdoorsy and far from airports, note that Williams is, if anything, even more outdoorsy and even further from the airport. As I recall, it's a good hour's drive over back roads to get to the airport in Albany. If you want "lively", Williamstown is probably not ideal; "downtown" is about one block long. You have to drive out of Williamstown to get to a shopping mall or a first-run movie theater. Finally, Williams has an unusually low acceptance rate for transfers (less than 10% over the past several years).</p>

<p>If Brown appeals to you, then Wesleyan, Haverford, or perhaps even Swarthmore or Bates might be worth checking out. You can see transfer admission statistics at collegeboard.com (look up the school and click on the "admission" link). </p>

<p>Haverford, while small, is one of several schools in the west Philly area, so the local scene may be livelier than you might think. But Haverford, like Williams, rarely accepts transfers (3 out of 113). Your chances would be better at Brown (189 out of 686), Wesleyan (126 out of 311), Bates (41 of 149), or Swarthmore (27 of 105).</p>

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<p>Thanks for the stats. I didn't realise Haverford accepted so few. I was looking at H & Swarthmore but chose H because it seemed less intense and more social overall. Although both are pretty small. Even though Brown is a huge reach I'm still gonna attempt it.</p>

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<p>One final word of advice: Wesleyan. If Brown is your number one choice, Wesleyan should be a strong number two. Don't be put off just because you haven't received any responses yet over in the Wesleyan forum. Go read the other threads, like this one: </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=127845%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=127845&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and see if maybe it sounds the right kind of place. Wesleyan has an academic atmosphere like Williams and a social atmosphere like Brown.</p>

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<p>haha I loved that post. Naked parties? Yikes. It's been recommended to me a number of times, so it's definitely up there. And what have I got to lose?!</p>

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<p>I have a friend at brown. I can vouch for the existence of naked parties, though not through personal experience.</p>

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<p>rhapsodynshadow: I thought it was Wes that had the naked parties, not Brown!?</p>

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<p>The "naked party" fad is associated with Brown (traditionally the most bohemian of the Ivies); it has apparently also spread to Yale. According to wikipedia.org:</p>

<p>"Every fall, the Brown Association for Cooperative Housing (BACH) throws an invitation-only "naked party" where all guests remove their clothes upon entry. The hosts aim to create a comfortable setting where people of all body types can celebrate the naked human body. In contrast to the sexually suggestive dancing that can be found at many college parties, dancing at a "naked party" is paradoxically much more tame and devoid of physical contact."</p>

<p>Wesleyan is known for a similarly relaxed social atmosphere, and so it doesn't surprise me that they have naked parties too. I wouldn't expect such parties at Williams though. Too cold.</p>

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<p>Haha interesting info!</p>

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<p>If being able to design your own curriculum is important, as per Brown, then I have to say that Amherst also has that option--we've got an open curriculum. Amherst also doesn't have Greek influence.</p>

<p>Sounds like you may like Wesleyan too. Have you looked into Swarthmore? Actually, perhaps not Swat, because they have quite a reputation for grade deflation.</p>

<p>I'm not a big partier or drinker, and I feel perfectly fine at Amherst. Twenty percent of freshmen chose to live in sub-free housing, and there's sub-free for upperclassmen as well.</p>

<p>Amherst doesn't have a set "type" of student. Some may dismiss it as generic, but it's really because students' interests are diverse. It's a very good mix of all kinds of people. The one common thread is intellectual curiosity.</p>

<p>On-campus events are big, and there are definitely opportunities for down time just going to movies, the mall(s), taking a day trip to NYC/Boston/New Haven, or just hanging with friends. </p>

<p>I would put myself into the apathetic category when it comes to politics (actually, neutral is a more accurate description), but there's a lot of student activism here. With ECs, you can become heavily involved because it's a small school. You'd have opportunities unavaible at larger schools.</p>

<p>I have never spent 10 hrs/night on homework... there are small classes, except for introductory psych/econ; those are not the typical class size. As for personal attention from profs, they notice when I oversleep for class. And I can always just stop by their offices, even when it's not office hours, and find them willing to chat or help out.</p>

<p>With the open curriculum you're encouraged to take classes outside of your major, to explore.</p>

<p>Also, at Amherst, there are 4 other colleges in the area. Just having UMass around, with its 18,000+ undergrads sharing the same town, is a lot.</p>

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<p>Hey, speaking of Dartmouth there is a big frat scene, but also a huge non-frat scene. You can go to Dartmouth and not hang out in frats at all. I have friends who rarely did the frat thing. People at Williams drink a lot too. I'd apply to Dartmouth because as a former transfer myself I can vouch for how amazing it is to transfers. Sophomore summer will allow you to start the summer before the fall with your entire class, so you would basically get socially adapted very quickly.</p>

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<p>I would recommend you not to come to Haverford if you are looking for less intense courseload and worried about course-load/intensity; seriously you will be shocked, as lot of freshmen.</p>

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<p>Haverunik, I'm not looking for a less intense courseload but a more challenging one. I thought that came across in my post. I have a heavy courseload now it's just not as challenging as I would like. Anyway, I'm only applying to Brown and Wes now; with all the research I've done, I think those fit my all-round interests, and personality the best. Thanks tho!!</p>