Does your undergrad really matter if you plan on being a doctor or lawyer?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Like lets say you have a lot of scholarships from a state university and you have been accepted into a top tier university.</p>

<p>You have the decision of either paying tons of money for your undergrad or paying little and saving that money up for med school or law school.</p>

<p>Lets say I go to the University of Georgia or Armstrong Atlantic for my undergrad degree but I want to go to med school at Harvard or Johns Hopkins, will they hold it against me because I went to a regular college even if I have the MCAT scores and the high GPA?</p>

2

<p>No. College doesn’t matter. Do as much as you can to minimize debt, because med school is expensive.</p>

3

<p>I’ve heard that a lot.</p>

4

<p>So IT would be a better idea to go to the college that gives me tons of money to attend?</p>

<p>I would still have a chance at Harvard and Johns Hopkins for med school right?</p>

<p>Honestly, I went to a tough high school and had a lot of problems in my life so my GPA was not top level. MY sat score is high but I want a new start. I really want to go to a college, excel, and have a chance at Harvard for med school.</p>

5

<p>I would say it doesn’t matter to a degree… I would say UGA is a fine school to go to. Armstrong Atlantic… not as much.</p>

6

<p>Problem is I really do not want to go to UGA.
I did not like it at all when I visited. </p>

<p>I liked Armstrong Atlantic but both schools are my back ups. I want to attend James Madison University, hope it works out financially.</p>

7

<p>I heard that getting to any Med. School is tough enough. How you can tell that you have what it takes to get to Harvard or JHU Med. School? You are not in college yet and mentioned that you did not have top GPA in HS. There are plenty of college graduate with GPA=4.0 and MCAT in high 30s that would still be very happy to get into ANY Med. School. I also heard that success and earninng potential of MD does not depend too much on Grad. school name. You need to set realistic goals and have a plan to achieve them.</p>

8

<p>I do not see the coordination of my high school GPA to my college GPA at all. I had a rough life in high school and plus I have been doing great a difficult magnet school.</p>

<p>Realistic? Well that is what I am trying to find out, you haven’t seen my college performance yet so how can you pull such a superficial conjecture?</p>

<p>It is hard to predict the future all of a sudden and if it is possible then it is realistic for me, unless of course you think high school performance determines all and you still want to hold a grudge over past threads.</p>

9

<p>Looking at your stats, no matter what high school you go to in Georgia, I honestly think there is no way that UGA is a backup for you. Also, if you didn’t like it when you visited, it isn’t a safety in any way - love your safety is rule #1 around here.</p>

10

<p>Okay I will ask my doctor tomorrow to confirm.
No offense but most of the information I have run into on this site has contradicted what my teachers (one actually used to work at college admissions 2 years ago) and my guidance counselor have told me. This site is another source of information for me.</p>

<p>Thanks for the contribution.</p>

11

<p>Sure, the possibility is there.</p>

12

<p>This is something I’ve been thinking about myself and after looking at the data, it seems clear the caliber of undergrad school makes a significant difference in law school admissions (can’t speak about med school, but I would think the same trend holds true.) Google “[Grad school name] undergraduate represenatation” for data galore. </p>

<hr>

<p>Harvard Law School Undergraduate Representation
2006-2007 # of Students
Harvard 241
Yale 113
Stanford 79
Penn 57
Princeton 54
Brown 48
Cal-Berkeley 48
Columbia 46
Cornell 45
DUKE 41
Ucla 39
Dartmouth 35
Georgetown 32

  • Schools that sent 1/2 to HLS not represented</p>

<p>Yale Law School
2005-2006 # of Students Undergraduate Enrollment
Harvard 89
Yale 86
Stanford 42
Princeton 34
Columbia 18
Brown 17
Cal-Berkeley 16
DUKE 13
Dartmouth 13
Williams College 12
U of Virginia 10
Amherst 9</p>

13

<p>For law school, your LSAT is the key factor. Yes, where you go to undergrad will matter, and your undergrad GPA is important, but the LSAT counts more.</p>

<p>There is a significant correlation between SAT and LSAT (do a search online to see the data on this), so it’s not surprising that undergraduate schools with higher SAT averages will do better in law school admissions.</p>

14

<p>I don’t know anything about Harvard med, but a quick look at the University of Miami med school, I found most of the undergrad schools are highly recognizable, not quite a… podunk U:</p>

<p>Undergraduate Schools Attended outside of Florida</p>

<p>UCLA 8, Duke 8, Emory 6, Michigan 6, Cornell 3, Brown 3, Wake Forest 3, UC-Berkeley 3, Stanford 2, Harvard 2, MIT 2, Rice 2, Georgetown 2, Tulane 2, Smith 2, Boston College 2, UC-San Diego 2, Boston University 2, UC-Santa Barbara 2, and 1 each from Pittsburgh, Grand Valley, Virginia, Chicago, Pennsylvania, Oregon State, Case Western, Columbia, North Carolina, Indiana, Oregon, New York University, Dartmouth, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Yeshiva, SUNY, Auburn, George Washington, North Colorado, Illinois, American, Mercer, Lehigh, Baldwin Wallace, Lafayette, Wheaton, Claremont, Minnesota, Washington and Jefferson, Westminster, Guelph, McGill, Central Michigan, UC-Irvine.</p>

15

<p>and a list from UNC Med:</p>

<p>Amherst College
Appalachian State University
Brown University
Campbell University
Carnegie Mellon University
College Of William And Mary
Colorado State University
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Duke University
East Carolina University
Emory University
Georgetown University
Guilford College
Hampshire College
Hampton University
Harvard University
Haverford College
Liberty University
Louisiana State Univ & A&M & Hebert Laws Ctr
Mercer University
Mount Holyoke College
North Carolina State University
NC State University At Raleigh
Northwestern University
Princeton University
Rhodes College
Spelman College
Stanford University
Tufts University
University Of Florida
University Of Georgia
University Of Maryland-Baltimore County
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
UNC at Chapel Hill
UNC at Charlotte
UNC at Greensboro
UNC at Carolina-Pembroke
UNC at Wilmington
University Of Northern Iowa
University Of Notre Dame
University Of Pittsburgh-Main Campus
University Of Richmond
University Of South Carolina At Columbia
University Of Tennessee-Knoxville
University Of Virginia-Main Campus
Wake Forest University
Wesleyan University
Western Carolina University
Wittenberg University</p>

16

<p>Ok…I have a friend who faced this in real life.</p>

<p>First of all, I don’t think it matters much as long as you go to Flagship or equal/better private school.</p>

<p>But, my friend always wanted to to to Mich Law school. She never gave it much thought when she went to undergrad. She went to a lowly directional/regional public because her mom worked there and she got free tuition. She got straight A’s and did very well on her LSATs (in Mich Law’s range).</p>

<p>She was rejected. She learned that no one from her undergrad had EVER been accepted to a top ranking law school. </p>

<p>So…she would say, go to flagship or better. Don’t go regional/directional public unless it’s grads are known to get accepted to top professional schools.</p>

<p>But, I agree…minimize debt for undergrad…med/law/business school is very expensive and you’ll likely need loans for that.</p>

17

<p>wrong section, should have asked on pre med</p>

<p>btw I came across this</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/197765-so-your-undergrad-college-doesnt-even-matter.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/197765-so-your-undergrad-college-doesnt-even-matter.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

18

<p>My experience is with law schools, not med schools but…</p>

<p>I know a couple of students with super duper grades from less exalted colleges who didn’t get into any med school. The reason wasn’t the name on their diplomas–or at least I don’t think it was. They had lowish MCAT scores. </p>

<p>Now it certainly isn’t necessary to go to Harvard, Stanford or CalTech to do well on the MCATs, but when someone goes to a college, majors in “pre med”–yeah, I know there’s really no such thing as a pre-med major, but I swear that this college has a major called that–gets close to a 4.0 and gets a lousy MCAT score, I personally think the quality of the college just might have something to do with the score. </p>

<p>So, be careful.</p>

19

<p>Quite a few LAC’s that are not especially high in the rankings have very good track records for getting their graduates into medical schools. At least, that is the case here in PA. But, attrition rates for pre-meds are very high at these types of schools. By the time students are seniors and applying to medical school, they have already been vetted by the college pre-med program. (Yes, I am aware that pre-med is not a major, but schools do have specific pre-med advisors who work with students from all majors.)</p>

<p>For ANY school, I would worry about the attrition rate of declared pre-meds. Freshman chem especially can be a big weeder course. I would ask how many students leave the pre-med track (or any science track) after freshman year, why they leave (there will always be some who are doing well, but whose interests have changed), and what supports are available for students who are struggling.</p>

<p>Do not assume that good or great performance in science courses at a top high school will necessarily insulate you from any difficulties - this is not always the case. Many freshman chem classes even at schools with “lower” ranks are filled with students who got 5’s on the chem AP, and some will find college chem challenging. Please do ask if help is readily available if you find yourself confused or struggling, or with a low grade on one or more exams.</p>

<p>Also ask what percentage of graduating seniors at any school who apply to med school get admitted. Colleges should have these numbers at their fingertips.</p>

20

<p>Actually, this isn’t the wrong forum to ask this question. There are many parents here who either have first hand experience with this issue, of have close friends or family that did.</p>

<p>Go to any school (public or private) that has a good reputation, such as having a strong ranking (doesn’t have to be a top school - a mid-tier is fine. A third tier that is strong in sciences (for med school) or strong in liberal arts (for law school) would also likely be fine - as long as it has a known reputation. </p>

<p>Don’t go to some unranked or 4th tier unknown school. A strong LSAT won’t overcome that at top law schools. </p>

<p>I know that some say that a strong MCAT can overcome an unknown school; I wouldn’t take that chance. It’s not like you can have a “do-over”. If you’re rejected from med schools, you don’t want to be constantly asking, was it because of my undergrad choice.</p>