Doesn't this list seem reach-heavy?

Parent Cafe
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<p>DS is working on a college list. Right now it seems reach-heavy to me, since many of them are highly selective.</p>

<p>Our family can handle the costs we are seeing in the financial aid calculators from full-need schools and we are also interested in strong merit aid. DS should be a NMF. He prefers a school in the northeast. He's done some activities quite a lot (music, track), with good success, and also does a fair amount of volunteering. Doing an internship in local government this summer.</p>

<p>Stats:
Top 5% in high school class, unweighted GPA just over 3.75
SAT: 800 math, 750 CR, 770 writing (one sitting)
ACT: 36 (one sitting)</p>

<p>Here's the current list, which may shift further:
Brown
Columbia
Bowdoin
Haverford
Middlebury
Georgetown
McGill
Northeastern
University of Massachusetts-Amherst (safety, but he's not keen about applying)
(possibly also: Penn, Yale)</p>

<p>What do you think? Is this list too reach-heavy? What would be considered matches?</p>

<p>Any and all advice appreciated.</p>

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<p>IMO, it is too reach-heavy.</p>

<p>Note that some of the LACs on his list fill a lot of their places in an early decision round. IME, white and Asian kids with 2 college educated parents who live in the Northeast, particularly a middle class or more affluent suburb in the Boston to DC corridor, and have no major hooks–legacy, URM, recruited athlete–often tend to do worse than you might expect when they apply in the regular round. So, yes, I’d add in a few less selective colleges and/or suggest he throw in a rolling admissions school.</p>

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<p>I would say its very reach heavy although his stats should get him at least a couple acceptances. Too many of the schools have more kids with similar stats applying than they have room to accept. He needs at least one safety he likes to make the process less nerve wracking while waiting for decisions to come in. Also, a safety will probably offer a full scholarship which helps if you have financial need. That way if the aid packages are no good, you as a parent have a plan B too.</p>

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<p>For a kid like that there are no real matches. So I think your best bet is to find some two real safeties that your kid likes pretty well. An engineering science kid might pick one of the smaller tech institutes, a kid interested in International Relations might pick American, a kid who likes a big rah rah university might pick Syracuse. If he likes LACs look at some of the ones a little further down the totem pole - especially ones that used to be all women - many will give an extra boost to a guy. I think on that list Georgetown is the only one that has EA - getting in early is a great safety. Not getting in early is sometimes a wakeup call to kids who refuse to consider anything but the top colleges.</p>

<p>Both my kids applied to mostly reaches and it worked out fine, but they both had a choice of safeties if they didn’t get into any of their reachier choices.</p>

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<p>Parent who has been through this here – some quick thoughts. </p>

<p>Yes, your instinct is right! He should work on identifying match and safeties – and UMass Amherst cannot be a real safety if he doesn’t want to seriously consider attending. Experienced parents will say, a true safety is a school the student will get into, can afford to go to, and would be happy to go to. </p>

<p>From that list, it sounds like he likes urban schools, plus Bowdoin and Middlebury. With his strong stats, he may be a qualified applicant at top schools. At the same time, with acceptance rates between 6-15% – the 85-94% of the applicants who are rejected may appear indistinquishable from your student.</p>

<p>Some possible similar-type schools – Tufts (though beware the infamous “Tufts syndrome” where high end students suspect they have been rejected because they are higher stats than the usual admits and it was obvious it was their safety school. Brandeis, American, George Washington. Maybe Bucknell, or Franklin & Marshall, or Trinity College in Hartford. Connecticut College is another possibility. If your student is an engineering type, that might mean a school like Lehigh. </p>

<p>The challenge at this level is, that schools just below the top schools have large number of applicants as well, so there are few “sure things” and demonstrated interest can count for a lot in admissions decisions. </p>

<p>Take a look at the Common Data set info on each school’s website – that will show range of gpas, class rank and test scores for admitted students, as well as identify the “priority” given to different aspects of the application, including demonstrated interest. We created a spread sheet which showed all that data for the schools my son was considering, and also to track deadlines for apps, financial aid and scholarships. </p>

<p>Good luck, and hang in there.</p>

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<p>Look for more like Northeastern that would give NMF full tuition and entrance into their honors program. The ones I can think of are American, GW, & U Del, but I am sure there are more.</p>

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<p>DS could drop some reaches (although I’m not sure about that), but what would be matches w/strong financial aid? </p>

<p>By strong financial aid, I mean schools that meet full need or have very good merit aid that’s a good possibility for him to get.</p>

<p>We’re having trouble coming up with matches.</p>

<p>I’m encouraging him to consider Temple, which should be a safety and would give him full tuition.</p>

<p>Could Northeastern be considered a safety?</p>

<p>Any other advice and feedback would be most appreciated. Thanks to all who have offered such so far.</p>

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<p>If you’re going to add American, make sure to show them love. Lots of high-stats kids didn’t get in this year. Understandably, they don’t want to be anyone’s safety.</p>

<p>I agree that it’s too reach-heavy.</p>

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<p>Most of these schools don’t have ANY merit aid.</p>

<p>Spend time on the safety. If you have a safety that you are sure you can afford, and he’d really like to attend, then he can apply to as many reaches as he likes. But I note again that almost all the reaches you’ve listed claim to have NO merit aid (or so they say, though 320-pound offensive linemen might tell you otherwise.)</p>

<p>But what does he want to study?</p>

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<p>What is he interested in studying? We can suggest alternatives. American has upped its merit aid. I was surprised by ds’s aid offer.</p>

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<p>Maybe add an extra safety school, but unlike many posters here I actually don’t think it is too bad a list with grades and scores like his he definitely should get a few acceptances beyond UMass.<br>
McGill could almost be considered a low match/safety because the way Canadian Universities work is that for undergrad (very different for post graduate school) is that they are very marks driven and their is a very thin line between reach and low match/safety. Generally if you are a couple points above their posted admissions averages you are guaranteed in, but if you are a couple points below you have very little chance. [Admissions</a> Standards - U.S. High School | Applying to Undergraduate Studies - McGill University](<a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/applying/standards/unitedstates]Admissions”>http://www.mcgill.ca/applying/standards/unitedstates)
Your son is above all the academic standards so you can pencil in a McGill acceptance with a fair amount of confidence.</p>

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<p>

It’s difficult to say what is a reach and what is a match with this little information. For example, what types of classes did he take? You said “He’s done some activities quite a lot (music, track), with good success.” Were music and track the only ECs and awards that would go on the app? How successful is “good success” – noteworthy at a HS school level, a regional level, a state level, or a national level? Are there any hooks or anything else that could have a big impact on the results, such as being a URM or overcoming significant disadvantages?</p>

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<p>Does McGill give good merit aid/FA? It’s hard to get full rides as a Canadian. I’m from out west though - you may know better.</p>

<p>But yes, McGill, if you have the marks, you will get in.</p>

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<p>We’re ok with the schools that have no merit as long as they are 100% full need. The financial aid calculator figures show they’re doable. </p>

<p>McGill doesn’t fit either category and is a bit on the expensive side for us, but right now it’s on the list. Sure would be better if the exchange rate would improve!</p>

<p>He says he’s undecided but leaning toward social sciences of some sort. Based on what he talks about, his strongest interests are psychology (particularly neuroscience) and urban studies.</p>

<p>Music and track are strong for our state but not really beyond that. I think the music would be a net positive for LACs who want a violist in their orchestra. A music minor is a possibility.</p>

<p>He has a duo, with a violinist, that plays in nursing homes. And he’s doing an internship in local government this summer, and they’re giving him real work to do.</p>

<p>He’s also been visiting people with Alzheimer’s at a nursing home this last year.</p>

15

<p>Would he consider adding some of these schools to his list which I think are all more in the match category for him than a reach (although I’m sure people will disagree):
Skidmore
Vassar
Trinity (CT)
Union Clg
U of Rochester
Syracuse
Ithaca
Lafayette
Dickinson
Franklin & Marshall
Gettysburg</p>

<p>A highly qualified young woman from our school got a $10K merit aid from Gettysburg. And being a boy, he may benefit from the gender imbalance at some of these schools. Maybe he could see adding 3-4 of these to his list so he has more options.</p>

<p>Also look at Fairfield University in CT. My daughter got $26k in merit aid from them and her scores weren’t as high as your son.</p>

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<p>Also: He’s taken a lot of honors classes, with 3 APs so far. </p>

<p>US History: 5
Music Theory: 5
Calculus AB: 4</p>

<p>Oh, and he started French Club this year and is co-president. He’s also been involved in an environmental club and does water testing; the data are used by the state Department of Environmental Protection.</p>

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<p>Definitely a reach-heavy list. I know someone who got into Cornell and JHU but not into McGill.</p>

<p>What worked for my kids was to really hone in on what schools they wanted (size, major, vibe, opportunities) and then tailor their apps to that. </p>

<p>Even kids with serious hardware and national awards don’t get in everywhere. Glad your radar is up for understanding how competitive admissions can be. No harm in throwing apps at some tippy-top lottery schools, but he also needs to have places that will be HAPPY to have him, where he will be happy to attend, and that your family can afford.</p>

<p>Actually, I’d suggest looking at Tufts for someone interested in urban studies. They look VERY closely at fit as expressed in essays, which is why some folks are surprised when they aren’t accepted.</p>

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<p>Has he visited or had the opportunity to attend summer stuff at any colleges? What have been his impressions? Other than “northeast” do you think he has a good sense of what colleges of various sizes and locations offer/their identity? Has he looked at the fiske guide?</p>

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<p>I’d concentrate just on the safety that he loves, and then the rest doesn’t matter.</p>

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<p>OP, we also live in Maine, and my S applied with almost identical stats and activities, although his class rank wasn’t quite as good. (Our HS doesn’t weight at all, which is not to the advantage of a kid taking the most rigorous possible schedule. They also do not rank.) He also had some state/national-level awards, 5s on AP exams, and so forth. BTW, you didn’t mention SATIIs. He is going to need 2 strong scores to compete in that company.</p>

<p>I would say that Bowdoin is pretty much a match, assuming that your S has good essays and good recs, as well as a rigorous schedule. They like top students from Maine. Most of the Ivies are tossups, with Cornell and Penn perhaps being the best bets, depending on the program. At that level both university and LAC admissions can be fluky. For example, S was waitlisted at Williams and Swarthmore, but admitted to the U of C, Dartmouth, and Pomona. He was rejected by Georgetown, strangely, which is slightly less selective. (Might have been that philosophical essay equating religion to mind control. :smiley: )</p>

<p>Don’t know about Haverford and Middlebury. It is likely that he would be admitted to both, but the flukiness is magnified at small LACs. He might want to consider a few more, such as Carleton and Pomona. Carleton is need aware, but gives good FA. Pomona has excellent need-based FA, and a boy from Maine has a geographical and gender advantage. </p>

<p>Depending on what he wants to study, look at Pitt for an academic and financial safety. He would be in their honors college, and I believe he is in range for their full-tuition scholarship. My S had the University of Rochester, which is a very good school with broad strengths, as his safety. They do give merit and need-based aid, but their package was not good enough for us to afford it, so it is lucky that he didn’t have to go there.</p>

<p>Northeastern is a safety for your kid, IMHO. I don’t think you need U Mass if he doesn’t like it.</p>

<p>I cross-posted with your updated info. Colby is into kids who volunteer and I think that environmental studies is big there. Also a good fit at Vassar, plus the gender advantage. Also, my S had done more with music, but less interesting stuff with other activities than your S.</p>

<p>Don’t worry if your kid doesn’t “love” his safety. Regard it as a blessing if he does, but the reality is that kids who have a realistic shot at the most selective schools often just aren’t going to “love” a place that one would regard as a true safety.</p>