<p>Much of the projects that the Intel/Siemens/etc. kids send in are actually "original"? Or, if a kid "does research", how do they formulate their own project out of it? Because to my knowledge the stuff that professors are already working on are pretty extensive, it's usually not something that's thought of and built in a few days/weeks over the summer. Just curious.</p>
<p>It's not done in a few weeks days. It's done over months and years. In most cases, the students did a lot of background work, and a lot of that stuff most people call boring, like oggling wikipedia math for hours every night or playing w/ mathematica or running gels in the lab. That's why RSI, etc kids are successful, RSI didn't magically make them win, they already had a background sufficient to get them the win. Don't try to do a siemens/intel project in a few days or weeks. It won't happen. Do do a project to learn about science/mathematics/engineering/technology. It's not worth it just to win.</p>
<p>PS: The originality factor is a difficult line to argue. Science builds on itself, so in almost every case today, the research builds on previous work. At this stage whether the kid does all the work and understands it is just as important as coming up with the idea (and if you know your field well, you will be staying on top of ideas and having new ones all the time).</p>
<p>Can you name a single ISEF grand prize winner who spent several years on their project? (By "project" I'm talking about that particular specific question they're investigating, not the general field or topic.) But I do strongly agree that you should do a project to learn about whatever it is you're interested in.</p>
<p>How is it the same as coming up with the idea? I may do a lab in science class and understand it all, but does that put me at the same level as Pasteur (or whoever else)? No.</p>
<p>Eh...my project is being done over the course of 8 months (from january to september) and I'm probably only a quarter of the way through at this stage...although I did take a break from the end of march till now for health reasons/AP exams</p>
<p>Yes I can name several grand prize winners who have spent several years on their project. Also I wouldn't take these competitions too seriously, especially ISEF is very easy to sneak by and nab at least 2nd - 3rd place in your category. </p>
<p>I think you are making a big mistake in equating your science class lab with real research. Lets say you or your professor poses a good question. Now you do some initial work, think about it, and figure out the next step. This isn't like school where you have a clearly defined question, know the procedure to get there, and have an expectation of what you're going to get. Many times the frustrating part of research is sitting half way through with no idea how to proceed. So what do you do? You think about it, discuss it with other people, talk to your mentor, etc. </p>
<p>Also I find it funny that you would understand it all for a science lab in your class. I have never understood it all for any lab I've done. If you think you understand it all, it is a clear indicator that there is a lot of deeper science you don't even know about yet.</p>
<p>Wait what is this? Is it worth joining? How can one join?
I've heard about it but it seems only geniuses do these.</p>
<p>There's nothing to "join". You have to take it upon yourself to find an appropriate research mentor or just start doing as much research as you can.</p>
<p>Okay I'll just get to the point. I'm sort of an honest person and I've just seen so many kids basically copy their professor's work. I'm not saying that they don't understand it, I'm just saying it wasn't their idea. So my point is where do people draw the line between the student's original idea and the professor's?</p>
<p>Or am I missing the memo and thinking too much into integrity when those ISEF projects aren't expected to be 100% "original" anyways?</p>
<p>The clarification is that in most of these cases, the work is the students while the idea or question posed may be the professor or researchers. It is very difficult for a students to randomly come up with a problem pertinent and important to current science because they're a student, not a scientist. However, it is possible that the work for the projects is entirely theirs.</p>
<p>mysundown presents a very valid point. A good mentor will not take you up, then just let you sit there, doing nothing. Sure, some projects may be completely original, but in the end, everything is based off of something. Your professor may not be the one who gave you the idea/area to look into, but many papers have a "discussion" area at the end, where they explore future experiments that could be done. If I were to pursue one of these areas, even without any guidance whatsoever - I'm still using previous knowledge to give me an idea of how far science has advanced and where I can go next.</p>