<p>Track update: We’ve had 2 meets since I originally posted. At the first of these meets, the very nice girl who had been placing third for the team in the 1600m., ran a PR and beat the formerly second-placing whiny girl. (As an aside, earlier in the season the nice girl’s mother had complimented me for my D’s success and said she tells her D that my D will help her become a faster runner.)</p>
<p>My guess is that the coach realized it wouldn’t do any good to take my D out of the 1600 to help the whiny girl win, since she might not win now anyway because the nice girl has improved. So in the second meet, he moved the whiny girl to two sprint events and the 800. Now coaches sometimes have kids run races that are longer or shorter than their normal ones in order to build endurance or speed. But they don’t tend to take a half-miler or miler and put them in a 100, 100 hurdles, or 200; distance runners don’t tend to have the fast-twitch muscles to do well. And the coach hasn’t ever done that with any of the other distance runners. In addition, I suspect it was not a coincidence that he took the star 100/200 runner out of those races that meet and moved her to the 400 and relay. This could all be an unrelated coincidence, of course.</p>
<p>However, I doubt it. In this second meet, D is running the 800, along with whiny girl. D leads from the start, but in the last 100 the whiny girl gains on her. She surges twice, D matches her, and then D surges ahead to win. What does the coach say to D? He says, “You need to worry about your time, not about beating your teammate.” I see. And does slowing down and letting your teammate win improve your time? In what way wasn’t she running for time, given that she led for the entire way and ran about the same time she’s been running? Did D not hide well enough the un-PC fact that she is most definitely competing to win?</p>
<p>D felt chastised, and kept saying that she is going to worry more about her time in the future.</p>
<p>I still think this school needs to reexamine it’s goals. They spend all this time telling the kids to work hard so they can get into these top schools and then slap the kids in the face, when they do get into these schools. Nice message.</p>
<p>The idea of not advertising what school you will attend because it’s “top tier or elite” has been an ongoing discussion at our school. The teachers who weighed in say this is crap. If you get into the “big school,” God Bless You! You deserved it! A couple of our teachers put together murals featuring their seniors and their choices. They are proudly displayed outside their classrooms for everyone to see – all with the blessings of those seniors. It has been the underclassmen, our teachers said, who balked at advertising where someone plans to attend college. Some truly believe that they does hurt others’ feelings. </p>
<p>My son is a HS sophomore, and truthfully, he could care less what people say about some of the schools he has visited or hopes to visit. They are good schools. They offer great merit money. They have nice facilities from athletic to classroom. Just last week, he had two juniors poking fun at his lunch box, which happens to be from where his older brother attends school. They were appalled that he would consider the place, because it’s not our state university, which is well respected. My son told them that his brother would have been foolish to stay home, because he got a full tuition/full housing scholarship and will graduate without debt. It did not change their minds, but it’s nice to know my son understands what debt can do to a person’s life.</p>
<p>TheGFG: I feel terrible for your daughter. Sometimes it’s hard to be a winner. If its any consolation, I think kids learn just as much, if not more, from bad coaches & teachers than they do from good ones. Your daughter will be tougher for having experienced the unfair ways of some adults. Meanwhile, the whiny girl will grow up expecting folks to clear the way for her and will one day be shocked.
Regarding the newspaper article, one pretty funny point: at one of the schools mentioned as protecting students feelings, it seems that seniors don’t even attend school after May 1,because they do some out of school work, making the no T shirts after May 1 idea a bit absurd, I guess. !</p>
<p>I really wish I knew what “losing” means in this context. Like do you “lose” with everyone, or just with clueless and boorish people who are habitual sayers of stupid things? It has been my experience that adults who have graduated from college and gone on to live reasonably productive lives can manage conversations on a wide range of subjects. I’ve found that it just doesn’t matter to most people where anyone went to school (other than for the purposes of idle chit-chat) because we’ve moved on. Moved on = had several jobs, gained and lost spouses in various ways, grew children or not for various reasons, lived in different places, traveled, read books because we wanted to, dealt with the infirmity and death of parents, etc. I’m interested to know where people went to school because I’m curious about the paths that led people to the point they’re at today. I’ve never, ever been in a setting where any of my friends who went to selective schools are shy about saying so or get any flak for it. Maybe I’m just lucky. Or maybe I know how to pick my friends and acquaintances! ;)</p>
<p>Well, giving the coach the benefit of the doubt, he might mean that she could run an even faster time overall (and never even allow the whiny girl to get close to her in the first place) if she focused on running a certain pace and hitting certain splits rather than being content to simply get into the lead and then beat back any challengers who happen to come up.</p>
<p>You do occasionally see talented young runners who hurt their own performance by preferring to stay back and mix it up with rivals and challengers instead of simply running away at their own faster pace and crushing the field from the start. Whether your daughter is talented enough that this applies in her case is impossible for me to say with seeing her run. But it is a possible explanation of why a coach might legitimately say such a thing.</p>
<p>As a former track coach and college athlete (track), sometimes it’s in the best interest of the athlete to run different events through the season. I also agree, you need to compete against your time, not your teammates. Even in the top programs the coach will rest athletes through the season for injury prevention. I will also say that every coach I know tends to favor athletes that are team players and really take a dislike to overbearing parents. Please take that to heart because if your DD is as good as you say, your attitude WILL impact her college opportunities because the first question college coaches ask high school coaches is “what is the kid like”, the next is “what are the parents like”. I know of several kids that are not playing college sports for those two reasons alone.</p>
<p>SteveMA–How good did I say she was? You seem to be suggesting I think she’s a superstar who should run every race all the time because she’s so wonderful. You also imply that perhaps I am ignorant of how track operates. I am not. My older D runs for a top 10 Div. 1 program (my “overbearing” nature and “attitude” notwithstanding), and her brother also participated in track for years.</p>
<p>What I said about this child was that she was the best distance runner on her middle school team. That, as you know, means very little. I also noted her cognitive deficiencies which will limit her strategic ability, and said I thought the other girls probably had more natural talent than D and would likely surpass her once they trained more.</p>
<p>For the record, I have stated that I did not and will not speak to the coach. I respect his position and right to make decisions, but I don’t agree with his philosophy and think it hurts my D. One reason I will not speak to him is exemplified in your post. You have painted an obnoxious picture of me. Unfortunately, in this age of helicopter parents, the coach is always seen as the good, well-meaning hero who loves kids but whose job is made so difficult by pushy parents.</p>
<p>Perhaps you should be intelligent enough to recognize that not every situation boils down to a pushy parent.</p>
<p>Coureur: you seem to understand the sport. You aren’t wrong in what you’re saying. In fact, I asked my D if he told her what he means about paying more attention to her time. Did he tell her what was wrong with her splits, did he give her any suggestions for improvement, etc. He didn’t. So in the absence of something specific, this just ends up making D feel bad for wanting to win and makes me think he just wants the other girl to win. I am afraid as mom to tell her to slow down her first two laps (her splits are a little uneven), because kids who don’t have a good kick can’t wait until the end to pour it on or they will lose. She’s winning this way, so if ain’t broke…</p>
Hmm … certainly a minority of folks … but not quite as black and white as your question. I’ve had some people react negatively when I tried to avoid saying where I went to school (they would have preferred I came out with it) … and folks who had immediate negative reactions or made huge assumptions when I directly provided the info.</p>
<p>This is not a big deal but just yet another situation where to some degree you’re damned if you and damned if you don’t when you try to communicate … not because anyone is necessarily evil or a bore … just that there are many ways to approach a situation and some subset of people do not like the other approach</p>
<p>PS - and after 30 years I’ve definitely landed on the avoid and hedge side … many fewer negative reactions from this approach.</p>
<p>Huh…towards the end of high school is usually when people start to recognize the true winners and losers (aka the kid going to study engineering at Elite University is a winner, while the kid going to work at JC Penney to fuel his hopeless ‘band’ career is a loser).</p>
<p>I hate when schools/society try to hide the fact that some people are simply better and have more potential than others. The realization has to happen eventually, and now we’re going to try to hide it from EIGHTEEN year olds? Really? We’re telling legal adults that nobody is better than anybody else and everyone deserves equal outcomes?</p>
<p>PS: I’m not equating college acceptances to the potential of a person, but this mindset is a symptom of this hiding of reality</p>
<p>I used to work with a woman who was dating a guy who loaded Dr. Pepper trucks during the day and played nights in a C and W band. She was a hard worker, fiscally responsible, and bought her first small house when she was 24 years old. She was madly in love with him and wanted desperately to marry him, even though he seemed reticent about that (wanted to get established in his career first) and everyone told her he would never amount to anything.</p>
<p>She stuck it out (he backed out of marrying her twice at the 11th hour) and he finally came around to making a commitment and is now a very devoted and loving husband and father. Oh…he’s the lead singer of a famous C & W band. :)</p>
<p>I know, not normally how that kind of thing works out.</p>
<p>Not everyone is college bound. My husband tried but he had to work. He was goodmin school went the technical route and is a ggod hardworking successful business owner.</p>
<p>And I hate the words elite, top tier, etc. Half of that reputation comes from competition to get in. Don’t think harvard is all that. Don’t think Yale is either. It’s kind of like fancy reatuaraunts. Yu have to fight to get in, often with a wait list, snooty staff, and over priced. The food isn’t necessarily better then the less hoity-toity place down the road with good home cooking. You can leave both satisfied. </p>
<p>To the op, find activities beyond school. She will be able to shine.</p>
<p>Let’s not forget there are plenty of plumbers, electricians and other skilled blue collar workers who are making more money and providing more benefit to society than many college grads.</p>
Hmm … a guy was working as a security guard at night “wasting his time” on his foolish fascination with baseball … that would be Bill James who essentially reinvented sports analysis and how every GM do their jobs … (ps - and he now makes a ton of money still pursuing his “foolish” hobby)</p>
<p>There is more than one path in life … and pursuing interests in a non-traditional path can also lead a fine livelihood.</p>
<p>“preserving a harmonious learning environment it makes some sense.” At 18 years old, every student should be able to walk past an ivy league sweatshirt without incident. Even if it were in bad taste, which it is not (I wore my Penn Sweatshirt at my son’s track meet today and all the kids survived) shouldn’t an 18 year old be able to weather it? Your story is proof that the education establishment is on a different planet. My kids’ high school has a couple kids all upset, with administration support, about the “indian” type mascot. The other 1600 kids are laughing, not at the 2 offended (non-Indian) kids, but at the administration for going “Hmmm, what should we do about this so everyone feels ok?” Come on!!!</p>
<p>As a couple of commenters pointed out, the seeming winners and losers during senior year of high school may switch roles later on in life. </p>
<p>Whether it’s the former high school football captain who’s now collecting public assistance or the elite/LAC grad who is going to prison for defrauding their clients/society…or on the contrary…the high school nerd/geek who founded successful tech companies, play/sing at NYPH/Metropolitan Opera/hot rock<em>/rap bands, or even US President.</em>*</p>
<ul>
<li>I.e. Queen whose guitarist…Brian May was working on a STEM PhD at Imperial College before postponing his studies to dedicate himself to Queen’s soaring career…and recently finished it in 2007. The Offspring’s guitarist/lead singer Dexter Holland was a val and admitted STEM geek in high school who dropped his PhD studies in Molecular biology at USC to pursue his pop-punk career to great success.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>** I.e. Woodrow Wilson(Only PhD president so far), Theodore Roosevelt, Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, and many more I missed.</p>
while the kid going to work at JC Penney to fuel his hopeless ‘band’ career is a loser).*
I know someone who delivers coffee to coffee shops. He also plays occasionally in a band with his brother and a couple friends from jr high. He plays in a few other local bands as well and he has been developing his charity auctioneer gigs at the same time.
One of his bands ( the one from jr high) just played Costa Rica. He had a great time. He is one of the most enthusiastic people I know & he also rocks pretty hard.</p>
