<p>The thing that bothers me about the college sweatshirt ban is that this is the opportunity that the ACADEMIC kids have to shine – No one would ever dream of banning cheerleader outfits on the grounds that girls who didn’t make the team would feel bad, football uniforms, etc. Everyone’s perfectly comfortable saying “We let the athletes lord it over everyone else, and make everyone else feel bad and as an administration, honestly, we usually join in – with the pep rallies, the announcements over the PA system about wins, and the fact that the teachers all know the quarterback’s name but not your kid’s” == It’s OK for the athletes to call your kid a dork and geek and a loser – but God forbid an intelligent kid be allowed to do anything that might make an athlete feel stupid. My theory is that the sweatshirts make the teachers feel bad, since I’ve never met a public school teacher who got into or attended a Ivy League school. (But then again I just got back from one of those God awful “Everyone gets a trophy” school board meetings . . HOnestly, if your school’s team comes in FOURTH out of FIVE schools, in a town with less than 45,000 students, do you really need a trophy and to be recognized by the school board? I don’t think so . . )</p>
<p>The whole discussion is just a reflection that we have too much time. There is no substance in this. If there is no restriction, wear T-shirt, if there is a restriction, it is not worthwhile to spend any time arguing about why and whatever. If anybody really cares one way or another, it is a personal problem with priorities, then why - as I said we have way too much time on our hands, including me, quilty as others.</p>
<p>From the get-go the students are exposed to tryouts/auditions/elections and being chosen/not chosen for leadership positions, awards, etc. at the HS. No one cares about the feelings of students who are not picked. Then kids are chosen by someone outside of the school (college adcoms) and suddenly after 4 years, the students’ feelings matter?</p>
<p>Just a little hypocritical.</p>
<p>TheGFG: Having a son and a daughter, I couldn’t agree with you more.</p>
<p>Fallgirl, in my opinion you’ve hit the nail on the head with your post. The big difference here is that SOMEONE OUTSIDE THE SCHOOL did the selecting. The school, therefore, has little control over the outcome beyond the rec forms. That matters because the results can be a little embarrassing for them, as they may expose some preferences and favoritism on their part that aren’t substantiated by the college admissions decisions. In high school, maybe the BOE member’s kid gets more than her fair share of roles in school plays or solos in the chorus. She is seen as the big star. But then she fails to get into NYU Tisch, or any other top music program, while the poor girl in her shadow with more talent does. To read our school coaches’ comments to the local newspapers, you’d believe certain athletes are the overwhelming talents. But then they aren’t the ones recruited to top college programs and everyone not in the know is surprised to see who is. Our S’s year, the son of one of the high school teachers received a prestigious school science award over more deserving students–kids with national level accomplishments, higher SAT II scores, etc. The difference showed in admissions results. </p>
<p>You are right, miamiDAP, but it’s people with time to reflect and examine who are going to be bothered by societal trends.</p>
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<p>I’m not so sure about that. Heard boys…and sometimes even parents viciously accuse other kids of getting admission to some respectable/elite colleges because of affirmative action not only at my HS…but also among post-college acquaintances’ parents years after the fact. </p>
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<p>With few possible exceptions, the culture of these prep schools and the public magnets affected by the policy ARE ONES where academic achievement is celebrated and lauded above all else. Sometimes to obsessive elitist extremes…</p>
<p>These are not the mainstream US high schools where athletes and cheerleaders are the most popular groups on campus. </p>
<p>At my HS, the coolest kids were the ones who were finalists/semi-finalists for Westinghouse, on the Math/Debate teams, Computer Nerds, etc…whereas it was the jocks who were mostly disdained and dubiously regarded as those with the least intelligence…despite the fact they took the exact same admissions exam we all did.</p>
<p>Moreover…most HS classmates didn’t even know we had a cheerleading team…even 10-15 years after graduation or cared…much less clamored to join.</p>
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<p>I don’t believe this for one minute that years afterwards, parents are going up to their children’s former classmates and “viciously accusing” them of having gotten in through affirmative action. Sorry, cobrat, this all sounds like tall tales. I cannot imagine anyone doing so unless that person had a serious psychiatric problem. </p>
<p>Parents, how many on here would be interested in “tracking down” your kids’ high school classmates years later to spew venom on them? Anyone?</p>
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<p>They weren’t accusing those particular students to their faces…but were doing so behind their backs in a vicious manner in my presence. </p>
<p>I said viciously accusing them because that’s essentially what they were doing…didn’t think you’d take it to that literal extreme.</p>
<p>I wish I would have been MORE intrusive with my friends. I might have been able to help them with a better result.</p>
<p>3 of my friends have high school senior kids applying to college. I asked each of them a couple questions about their college search last year, but I didn’t want to be intrusive. All of them are now facing major disappointments, including 2 kids headed to community college who could have gone to much better colleges and a 3rd kid still chasing after the few colleges that are still taking applications. </p>
<p>They applied to some colleges where they had little chance of admittance, and other expensive colleges that had horrible financial aid.</p>
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You must associate with nicer people than cobrat and I do (with the clarification that I also don’t mean direct accusations–rather, we still hear from certain people years and years later how they were cheated out of their rightful places).</p>
<p>Or maybe some people just hold grudges longer. I certainly remember all the occasions on which I was cheated out of my rightful place.</p>
<p>Both my BA and MS are from institutions that caused brakes to squeal in the neighborhood I used to live in, so believe me I do get it. Where I live now, no one recognizes them. This means that the nice warm hoodie that I picked up at my last college reunion gets worn a lot more, and my dad’s old state-school sweatshirt is enjoying a well-deserved rest from constant use and washing.</p>
<p>Momzie. I couldn’t agree more with your statement. DS is at an HS with high level academics and highly competitive athletics. Lunch announcements on the PA detail the athletic prowess and accomplishments of whatever season we happen to be in. And aside from the occasional INTEL winner, I’ve yet to ever hear a PA announcement state…so and so was just admitted to such and such…rah rah, whooo haaa, let’s cheer! But we do here…so and so scored such and such. </p>
<p>Why is it okay to celebrate physical prowess but not mental?</p>
<p>Why is it okay to celebrate physical prowess but not mental? </p>
<p>Because the athletes are doing it on behalf of the school. Our academic teams get mentioned and rewarded too, but at my hs, if it isn’t done on behalf of the school, the administration doesn’t care.</p>
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<p>Oh my …so, there is no personal motive or gain, like athletic scholarships or college recruiting? The academic heavy weights are ‘doing it for the school’ just as much as the athletes…after all… those academic stats are what attracts those students who in turn can increase the academic stats.</p>
<p>“From the get-go the students are exposed to tryouts/auditions/elections and being chosen/not chosen for leadership positions, awards, etc. at the HS. No one cares about the feelings of students who are not picked.”</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that this is true of the high schools in your experience. But we do not know if it is true of the schools in the article that are instituting the delayed-sweatshirt policy. At my prep school – one that was extremely focused on its community and culture – practically everything from the get-go WAS designed to protect the feelings of those not picked. In fact, they went to great lengths to avoid the picking altogether. Every student who showed up for a sports team or a musical group was included.</p>
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<p>Oh my …so, there is no personal motive or gain, like athletic scholarships or college recruiting? The academic heavy weights are ‘doing it for the school’ just as much as the athletes…after all… those academic stats are what attracts those students who in turn can increase the academic stats."</p>
<p>I think MizzBee is referring to the administration’s perception of athletic teams, not necessarily what motivates each athlete as an individual. When a team competes, they have XYZ High School on their clothes/gear. Individuals can and do get recognized, but in the end the trophy goes to the school’s trophy case to display forever and ever.</p>
<p>Academic achievements–especially college admissions–are perceived as more personal. The most the administration can do with college admissions news is keep track of the numbers in an effort to boost the reputation of the high school. But in the end, a student being accepted into a prestigious college is a win for the student, not for the school.</p>
<p>At least, I think that’s what MizzBee was implying. I totally understand your point, but at my high school at least, very few people played sports with the intent of boosting their stats for a future collegiate career and beyond. I can only recall a couple people in my years there who received scholarships to D1 schools, and only a handful who were recruited to play at lower division schools.</p>
<p>You are exactly right big10champ.</p>
<p>The schools should be teaching about freedom of expression and freedom of association.</p>
<p>Not sure if this has been mentioned, but a lot of HS students (including myself) wear college clothing from the schools of our favorite teams. If a sophomore walks in with a duke t shirt on if Duke is in the final four, what happens then?</p>
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<p>I actually like the fact that your school included anyone whom was interested in an activity. But no matter how many kids are involved in an activity there are still starters/benchwarmers, leads/chorus, editors/staff, etc. There is pretty much no way a school does not make distinctions between who is chosen or not.This policy of has nothing to do with sparing kids’ feelings. It’s an issue of control.</p>