<p>I care about my academics immensely. I care about my ECs immensely. I want my admissions to be based off SAT scores simply because that's where I'm strongest. This is tongue-in-cheek, of course.</p>
<p>Everyone realizes that scores aren't everything. There are institutions that care about the whole package, and want to take activist types. There are others, including some (I would even argue HYPS to an extent) top colleges that are looking for academic power with the potential to do great things in the future. It all depends. But my ECs are not necessarily more important than my academics.</p>
<p>A side note: Many people on this forum are perfectionists. It's easier to be a perfectionist about scores than it is to be about ECs, so that's where the energy goes. I'm one too - I retook Physics (originally 750) to try to improve my score. I got 800 the second time, and am happy. Others are in the same position with different standardized tests.</p>
<p>I partially agree with both sides of this issue. I think test scores are basically meaningless, as all they do is show how good you are at taking a test and how much you spent on test prep. However, extracurriculars are often unfair. Getting "leadership positions" colleges covet so much can be a popularity contest. For example, I was denied the position of Treasurer of a club I'm devoted to not because I wouldn't be a good Treasurer, but because when push came to shove, I was up against a "hot dude" and those voting were mostly teenage girls. I've also been denied leadership role opportunities simply because the clubs I'm interested in don't offer such positions. But adcoms see my extracurriculars, and they see somebody who doesn't care enough to really get involved in clubs.
Grades aren't fair- some schools have easy As in every class, others are more difficult. Class ranks aren't fair- some schools are more competitive than others, and weighting systems can be gamed. Recommendations aren't fair- they favor the kid in the smaller school with teachers who really know him/her, and some teachers give better recommendations than others. The only really fair part of the admissions process I can think of is the essay, and even there, amount of review by parents, teachers and friends is uneven. But then again, try to fix the program and there will simply be new flaws to fix. Life isn't fair. Neither is college admissions. And neither of those will change anytime soon.</p>
<p>Completely agree with AnagramPanda. The application process simply isn't fair. And there's little anyone can do about it.</p>
<p>The only thing I can think of is outlawing SAT prep and only allowing 1 sitting for each test. Nobody would agree to that though, least of all the $$$college$$$board$$$.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but you have to be either kidding or really naive to think that you HAVE to get high scores on the SATs/ACTs to be intelligent and intellectually curious. I know several people who got "mediocre" (only according to CC - they were fine with it) scores that are incredibly self-motivated, read a lot, and are just all-around smart.</p>
<p>^That's true only to a certain extent. I got 780 on the math - basically one problem where I made a small mistake. I can't imagine anyone better than me at math getting <em>more</em> than that wrong. The test is simply too easy. That doesn't mean I think anyone who got 2+ wrong is stupid. I just don't think you can get 650 on the math as a senior in HS and say you're a great math student.</p>
<p>The two English sections are more subjective (especially writing), so on those you could definitely be very smart and for whatever reason get a mediocre score.</p>
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<p>the "stupid" extracurriculars that some kids do. i even read one kid write them as "inane bs extracurriculars"</p>
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<p>why are so many of the kids on here lazy smart kids?</p>
<p>do any of you realize that there are kids out there who devote incredible amounts of time to extracurriculars because they really do care about other causes in the world or locally, or artistically, or even athletically?>>>></p>
<p>Kids who are deeply into their EC's don't have too much time left for hanging out on C.C. So this forum is overrun by "lazy smart kids"....and some 'lazy smart parents'...like me :-). </p>
<p>I don't think the SAT is the be-all, end-all, but it is important as a barometer. In the wash of 4.0s, 99 averages, etc, colleges need a yardstick to say x student is better than y student.</p>
<p>i do agree that ECs can be truly a popularity contest...many people do things "just for college" to the point that I want to scream. I actually like the stuff I do!</p>
<p>people do some extracurriculars just for the sake to get into college, but some really passionate people to EC's they're interested in and go really far in them because they're interested in that. Those passionate dedicated people are the kinds that Ivies are looking for</p>
<p>and SAT's arent everything... they just show whether or not you know how to take a test. SAT's are there just so colleges can confirm that you're not a complete idiot, and thats why a good score, not a perfect score, is necessary</p>
<p>hahah all those "passionate" ppl are deceiving themselves...unholy ender is perfectly right. ppl only do things when they see some sort of personal gain in it. even if it is just the satisfaction of contributing to a selfless endeavor...</p>
<p>heck life itself is one big game of pretention....</p>
<p>just as you pretend to get involved with stuff because you're such a "passionate person", you pretend to live your life to the fullest because you think it actually matters, when seriously, it's just one measly little speck in the entire, vast, grand universe.</p>
<p>what point am i trying to make with this statement? haha uhhhh i really don't know...gah i'm just so frustrated at my lack of ability to come with a decent personal statement and i have like 5 days left, omg ugh!!</p>
<p>I'm not sure about ender in general. I saw him in another place refer to Cornell and Brown as "100% safeties" or something along those lines... which I don't think pretty much anyone can do.</p>
<p>To contribute to the discussion, I think SATs are a good indicator of intelligence and learning ability. I tend to hang out with amazing underachievers, smart kids who don't try in school at all. They all scored significantly higher than their GPAs would predict.</p>
<p>However, do I think that because of this, my friends belong at a top-notch institution? Probably not. I don't think they have the personal motivation necessary to succeed in that kind of environment. That's why you have to look at the whole picture, SATs, GPA, ECs, essays, recommendations, all of it. Because the people who do well at Harvard, Princeton, etc. are both smart AND motivated.</p>
<p>You're having trouble coming up with a personal statement because you don't think life matters so when you do things, you don't really care. There really are people who do think life matters and they do things because they care.</p>
<p>^haha no, i WANT to think life doesn't matter anymore BECAUSE i'm having trouble coming up with a personal statement....right now i think i care entirely way too much which is why i'm agnozing over it so much...every time i come up with an idea, it just doesn't seem good enough.</p>
<p>^and yeah, i guess i've really digressed off topic now.</p>
<p>thanks OP for providing such a wonderful thread where i was able to vent my frustrations today. looking back over a lot of what i said here today makes me wince a little, lol.</p>
<p>hopefully a break of like a couple days to a week from CC will clear my head up. once i get those EA apps in, i'll be feeling better. haha i just hope i can manage the self-control to actually stay off...i posted so much crap today.</p>
<p>yea seriously theres this one bi<em>ch as kid in my school, who gets disgusting test scores(2200! compared to the next highest of 2000) and does track for the sake of doing it, he doesnt care at all and in xc he never ran in a single meet, yet I bet you he will put on college app that he did 2 years of VARSITY cross country and was a senior co captain. When he really did absolutely nothing, and in track he sucks butts, but I know he will put Captain and 4 years of Varsity(even though he has never ran in an Invite before) It </em>*es me off cause i get alright SAT's and ACTs'(1980 and 32 act) but I love running, I ran xc and track for 4 years, and I never missed a meet or practice on purpose. I actually care and have gone to state level. But all I can say is 4 years Varsity xc and track, co captain, and all district 2 mile and xc runner, and ran at region and state level.</p>
<p>but colleges would think other kid is better since he has sick SAT scores and did alot of extra curicular activities</p>
<p>I understand how this will **** you off a great deal but that other kid is going to be lying about parts of his application and you just have to know in your heart that you'll be applying to schools honestly. That's the only thing that separates your two apps, but unfortunately it can't be helped (welcome to life :P). </p>
<p>anyways about your own app, i think you could write a great essay about running and your extreme passion for it and how it's changed you. Obviously that other kid, if he tries to write an essay about running, it won't be as convincing because it will be false. You just need to do your best to convey to readers that you are deeply passionate.</p>
<p>@unholy: Plenty of people do well on SAT's yet they get C's and D's in school because they are unmotivated and also because the SAT doesn't measure challenging material, math only goes up through Alg II.</p>