<p>My son is interested in double degree programs (Jazz Studies and Liberal Arts), and I have a question. He's a bright kid, but he's really unsure about what he's interested in. So in the liberal arts realm, he feels like he needs the flexibility to really be able to take enough courses in enough different subjects to try and find an academic area that truly interests him.</p>
<p>This is generally the case for single degree liberal arts students, but with a Double Degree program, do you have this option, or are you locked into planning out your schedule upon arrival, and taking just enough courses to fill your requirements, etc...?</p>
<p>My son is a fifth year double bachelor degree viola performance/music ed major at Hartt. This program is designed to get you out in five years, and we knew that up front. Our experience is that you have to play strict attention to all your requirements, and watch course sequencing very carefully. Also, if a course is offered only once a year in the fall only semester, don't bet the ranch on it actually being offered the semester or time slot that you need to take it.</p>
<p>Try and give yourself a bit of slack by taking generic "required" courses in the evening or summer/winter sessions at a local college if the degree granting institution will accept the transfer credits (not all will, particularly in major courses).</p>
<p>Having a good advisor, with experience in the the dual degree area is a godsend.</p>
<p>My boy's degrees will only take a semester beyond the five years outlined, through no fault of his. And be aware that if you go beyond the state time frame, the merit money will most likely evaporate.</p>
<p>My D started out looking at liberal arts degrees, with a desire to continue participating in music without majoring. As we've visited colleges, we've noticed some interesting differences. Some schools, it's nearly impossible to double major, and others, it's ridiculously easy. </p>
<p>Some schools have extensive, rigid core curriculum requirements that dictate your schedule pretty much. At some schools that are encouraging my D to double major, the music requirements along with core requirements mean she won't get time to do much else until Junior year. Since she's not sure - like your S - what she wants to major in, I hate to see it left so late!</p>
<p>So my advice is to ask how easy it is to double major, and ask what the core requirements are, and see what's left.</p>
<p>This is highly dependent on the school, the second major he eventually chooses and how much AP or transfer credit he starts out with. Look for schools that allow freedom within broad distribution requirement categories rather than requiring lots of specific courses. In the first year or two, take courses that could be used either as the beginning of a major sequence or to satisfy distribution requirements in a non-major field.</p>
<p>A program in the physical sciences is often hard to coordinate with music because couses must be taken in a fairly rigid sequence and the lab courses often conflict with the musical rehearsal and practice schedules. This usually requires careful planning from the beginning. A second major in social sciences or humanities would permit a bit more exploration in the first year or two.</p>
<p>Also look for schools that have a fair number of double degree students. As violadad points out, having an advisor who is familiar with the double degree process is critical. You are far more likely to find an advisor like that at a school that gets more than a handful of double degree students per year.</p>
<p>Perhaps the most important thing is to find a teacher for his principal instrument who is supportive of the double degree program.</p>
<p>If you are acepted into the Conservatory at Oberlin the admissions folks said it is quite easy (almost a formality) to get accepted into the College for a double degree after the first year. This doesn't directly answer your question, but does indicate a degree of flexibility in pursuing both at Oberlin.</p>
<p>My son is applying for Jazz Studies this year and has narrowed his applications to UMiami, UMichigan, Oberlin, NEC and Manhattan School of Music. UMass for a safety. At this moment in time he <em>thinks</em> (subject to change!) that he wants to be in a college/university environment vs stand alone conservatory. Although he is a good student, he is not passionate about any subject but music at this point.</p>
<p>I happen to be pretty familiar with Oberlin because my daughter is in her second year there, officially only in the conservatory but still considering doing a double degree in math. It is pretty easy to get into the double degree program from the conservatory side after the first year. Basically, you need to get two teachers from the college whose classes you have taken to fill out a brief recommendation form that you get from the college admissions office.</p>
<p>If you know going in that you want to double major, you could also apply to both the conservatory and the college at the same time. There is a slight advantage in doing it this way because you will get an advisor in both schools from the start and the number of credits you can take per semester without incurring extra tuition costs increases by one.</p>
<p>As mom55 says, they are pretty flexible about the whole double degree thing, with somewhere between a quarter and a third of the conservatory students also working toward a degree in the college. There are a few teachers in the conservatory who are not as supportive of the program as others, so you want to arrange a sample lesson and ask that question if possible.</p>
<p>Bassdad can certainly tell if this is true or not...but all of the students we have known who double majored at Oberlin (with dual acceptance to the conservatory/college) took at least 4 1/2 years to complete their two majors. Most took a full fifth year....no finaid.</p>
<p>I have never heard of anyone completing the Oberlin double degree in less then 9 semesters and most take five full years. The merit-based scholarships that the conservatory offers are renewable for the fifth year if the student is in the double degree program and has met the GPA and ensemble participation requirements - it says so right in daughter's acceptance letter. I'm not sure about other forms of aid.</p>
<p>drummerdad, by now you are probably starting to realize that flexibility is an issue with double degrees. Even at very supportive schools, like Oberlin, a double degree is demanding and can easily require 5 years for a focused student. There is not going to be a lot of flexibility in undertaking a DD and also having time to explore and take lots of unrelated courses. It sounds like your S need to consider other options.</p>
<p>As BassDad points out, there may also be concerns about finding supportive studio faculty. Most faculty rightly expect a level of commitment for DD students which is comparable to the single performance major. Last year as a freshman, my D had some concerns about her music teacher. She felt he did not have much interest, was not pushing her, and did not seem involved. Over the summer she took outside lessons. This year she is practicing many more hours/week and is progressing rapidly. Somehow last year's music teacher is much better this year. He is giving her a lot more input and also pushing her to apply to Aspen and other music festivals.</p>
<p>I know of an Oberlin double-degree student who is completing the two degrees in 4 years -- had AP's going in -- so it is possible, though probably rare.</p>
<p>I think it is imperative to talk to the teacher with whom one wants to study to find out how they feel about a double degree. My friend's son attended Oberlin in the DD program. At the beginning of sophmore year, his studio teacher told him to either drop the second degree or get accepted to another studio. (That teacher has since retired, but he was there for quite awhile.) Without the support of the studio teacher doing a double degree anywhere is virtually impossible.</p>
<p>Most likely if you're attending a school that offers dual-degrees you would probably have to take a number of credits outside of the degree when just completing a B.Mus in the first place- so those would usually pretty general, thus if one has no idea what they want to major in outside of music (when doing a dual degree) it would be pretty standard to shop around for a while.</p>
<p>I'd recommend also looking into McGill in Montreal- which has a top notch jazz performance program, and is at an incredible academic university! Also it's in Montreal, a city quite famous for it's jazz scene.</p>
<p>The deadline for applying to Oberlin Conservatory has been extended, according to the website, from the original deadline of December 1. (The deadline for the College is Jan. 15 -- that deadline applies for double degree applicants too). Having visited there, I would highly recommend it for students interested in a workable double degree program, with a vibrant conservatory.</p>
<p>a few of you have mentioned that there are a few places that it is easy to do a double degree,but you didn't mention the names. what are these schools?</p>
<p>I wouldn't exactly say that it is easy anywhere. As has been pointed out in this thread, Oberlin provides more flexibility than most in allowing students to pursue a double degree. Bard Conservatory requires its students to major in another field. I have heard that Lawrence University has a well-integrated program, but have no direct experience with it. Anyone else know of any others where a fair percentage of the music students are actually able to complete a second degree?</p>
<p>Even with flexibility, a double degree including music, will likely take more than four years to complete. DS's roommate completed a double degree in applied mathematics and music at Northwestern. He is now pursuing a masters in music. SO...it can be done.</p>
<p>I'm planning on doing a double degree in vocal performance/Russian Studies. Like others have said on this thread, I'm expecting it to take over 4 years. </p>
<p>Lawrence seems almost to encourage double degrees, which is one of the reasons I chose to apply there. University of Michigan and University of Colorado at Boulder seem pretty good about it, too. I don't really know anything about students who have actually completed double degrees there, but they make it easy enough to apply for a double degree, so I'm taking that as a positive sign.</p>
<p>To provide some quantification, I checked the data for Lawrence and in '05, 30% of the BM graduates completed a double degree and in '06, it was 26%. I'm not sure what the percentages of those graduating (versus beginning a double degree program) are for some of the other schools that provide a double degree option but at Lawrence, this is very, very common and does take 5 years. Music faculty are very supportive of the program.</p>