Double Degree Flexibility

<p>Sorry to go off-topic, but mamenyu mentioned earlier in the thread that the Oberlin conservatory application deadline was extended- does anyone know what the new deadline is???</p>

<p>There are plenty of schools that offer it...the problem is that not so many strong academic school with strong Jazz studies programs offer it. As far as I know:</p>

<p>Hopkins/Peabody (Very Difficult to do)
Eastman/ Rochester (Still hard, but easier than Hopkins)
NEC/Tufts (Very Difficult)
Oberlin
Northwestern (Jazz program not doing so great these days?)
USC (Jazz faculty is always on tour, TAs give lessons)
Michigan
UWashington
McGill
New School</p>

<p>Can't think of anymore off the top of my head...</p>

<p>There is also NEC/Harvard (one of the most difficult of all).</p>

<p>Yeah, hence why I didn't even bother to post it. While my son could have a decent shot at getting into Harvard (and possibly NEC, I personally have no idea yet), I wouldn't touch that program with a ten foot pole.</p>

<p>Bard is occasionally mentioned along with Oberlin, etc. Having visited both, I would say that there is no comparison. Bard was dead; the well-known faculty listed in the beautiful brochures did not even seem to have offices in the "conservatory" -- which has very few students, very few practice rooms, no "public" spaces for gathering, and is located at the other end of the very large campus from the Gehry performance space featured on the cover of the brochure. The admissions director at Bard was surprisingly discouraging about the program; they have not grown at the rate they had initially planned; many international students have had trouble with the academic part of the program...they are rethinking, etc. Bard also touts its access to NY, but it is a long drive or train ride (hours) and students tend to stay on campus, a lovely place, but rural. The college is also rather eccentric, both in terms of the physical plant and academic program. Oberlin Conservatory has great facilities, 150 plus practice rooms, all with windows, many with organs, harpsichords, etc. It was jumping with activity day and night; they actively encouraged double degree students (there were 42 this year who matriculated). After much research, it strikes me as one of the top options for students interested in a workable double degree program.</p>

<p>Just wondering...does anybody know if it is at all possible and if so, how difficult is it to double major at Rice/Shepherd (Not in jazz)?</p>

<p>I asked about doing a double degree at Rice and was told that it is strongly discouraged. You might have to talk it over with the individual professors if you really wanted to do it.</p>

<p>I know someone who did a double degree at Rice a number of years ago. He did cello performance and computer science and took 5 years. It said it was hard but not impossible.</p>

<p>What about state schools that have the double degree option. UC. Is it a state school? With CCM, how is the double degree issue dealt with?</p>

<p>UCLA School of Arts and Architecture offers performance degrees on instruments; there is also an ethnomusicology department in the School that offers a jazz performance option. Admission to the B.A. performance program requires an audition; there is prescreening for many of the instruments, including violin and piano. The admissions process also involves review of academic performance, SAT I and SAT II's.
UC Santa Barbara offers BMus. and BA performance degrees; they too require auditions, but there is no prescreening.
Both schools are universities that allow, in principle, for pursuing two degrees if you don't exceed the maximum number of units before graduation. At UCLA, if you wanted to double major, it appears that you would have to petition to do so -- many of the majors would be in the College of Letters and Sciences. For admission purposes, if you want to major in performance you must put that down as your sole option; if you are not invited to audition and then pass the audition, you are rejected from UCLA. The deadlines are the same as for regular UC applications (Nov. 30) but for the performance options, there are supplemental forms to submit and recommendations can be submitted (for regular UC admissions, they do not accept any recommendations).</p>

<p>I meant University of Cincinnati</p>

<p>MGill has been very interesting do far with science /double bass. We flew up this cold weekend from florida. Son was auditioned informally with a great bass the bass chairman borrowed for my son. They said,since it is so hard to get there with a double bass they would not make us come back at the formal audition time. This is our #1,our fingers are crossed. Also persuing Tufts and Northwestern.</p>

<p>From reading admissions FAQ at UCLA's Music Department web-page I realized that's it somewhat difficult to double-major in music and something else at UCLA; but I still didn't get it if that's completely impossible? </p>

<p>Also, it isn't clear from UCSB Music Department web-site whether you are denied the admission to UCSB in case of failng music audition there (as it is the case with UCLA music admissions)? Is it possible to apply to double-major there?</p>

<p>I would greatly appreciate any information on that matter.</p>

<p>Without specifically checking UCSB, it is my experience that from what we researched 5-6 years back and where my S actually applied was that most schools required seperate apps to both the college/university and seperate music school as well. In the case of a declared music major, acceptance by audition was/is what clinched the music school aspect. </p>

<p>A combination of music major plus an additional liberal arts,science,etc. degree might well dictate a more balanced approach to the school's policy regarding double degrees. My opinion only: if the applicant's stats are good enough to meet the school's general and major specific (ie, non-music)guidelines, the music portion is determined by the audition.</p>

<p>In the case of a dual music degree, the audition is the prime factor in determining acceptance. To illustrate, S & his 2 friends all auditioned at Hartt as performance/music ed double majors:
S had 1300+ SAT's, top 10% class, great audition
Freind 1: marginal SAT's, 50% class rank, great audition
Freind 2: 1400+SAT's, top 5% class,accomplished player,bombed audition
Both son and freind 1 were admitted, and freind 2 was denied. </p>

<p>Dual degrees or double majors by nature are a rather intense experience. Conflicts arise with class times, lab time, field work, practice, juries/recitals, performing organizations, course sequence offerings, gig/employment and social activity options. Plan on max credit load each semester. Consider summer or winterterm options to free up time, but add $ here. </p>

<p>Honestly, school specific questions based on an individual's needs are best addressed to the admissions office if the obvious answer isn't found on the school's website.</p>

<p>Nick - my S auditioned (and was accepted, but did not attend) at U of Cincinnati's CCM. Yes, it is a state school. No, I don't think double majors are encouraged; don't know if they're allowed. In general, the attitude at conservatories seems to be, "We view you as less than 100% committed (or confident?) if we sense you're working on a back-up plan." </p>

<p>But I think violadad has a great point - contact the school and ask. I would contact the music program, not the regular admissions. Because I think it's real common to double major within the university, which is quite separate from the conservatory. In fact, I'd contact the head of your specific department, because I wouldn't be surprised if different departments have different opinions or experiences. Certain instruments (organ comes to mind) that don't have a lot of ensemble requirements might have more time for doubling.</p>

<p>My S has a friend who attends Indiana. She started out as a performance major, then I guess got scared, and dropped back to a BA and added another major. I heard through the grapevine that her private teacher at IU recently contacted her previous teacher here, asking exactly how serious she was about music. I think they were having a bit of loss of confidence in her, after spending lots of money on her. My take on it is that conservatories get their reputation from kids who "make it" - who are driven, and pile up successes. Back up plans tend to be distracting.</p>

<p>To expand a bit on binx's point about "those who make it"...</p>

<p>A very valid point indeed. If you're awarded a significant portion in merit aid based on your audition and major, it's hard for the administration to justify a course of action that may entail those monies being "wasted" at least in an administrative/financial view. It's a bit easier for any administration to accept a double music degree (performance/ed; comp/theory; ed/music history or any other permutation) than performance/quantum mechanics as an example. </p>

<p>And binx is right... Department chairs or Associate Deans at the school level might best be the place to start, but have a serious, well thought out plan with options to put on the discussion table. </p>

<p>And if you ponder it, I would venture that most administrative decisions at any school regarding encouraging/discouraging double degrees is based on aggregrate data that assesses the viability of that program in terms of actual success/completion rates both within the "college industry" in general, and their particular experiences.</p>

<p>Here is some information about the UC's
UCLA does not allow applicants to select a second major if they apply to the College of Arts and Architecture: if you apply in music performance and don't get an audition, you don't get into UCLA; if you get an audition and are not admitted, same result. Once there, you are in the College of Arts and Architecture, and would not automatically be allowed to transfer to, or double major, in a subject in the College of Letters and Sciences -- that includes musicology, which is in the College of Letters and Sciences. You could petition to do so once there; it might be difficult because the admission standards are different for admission to the College of Letters and Sciences and because there are units limitations at UCLA. The performance degree at UCLA is a B.A. degree, not a B.M. -- so there are breadth requirements to fulfill as part of the major that are more extensive than in a B.M. program.
UCSB has both a B.M. and a B.A. degree in music. The application procedure is less restrictive than at UCLA -- you can list a second choice major. They offer a B.A. and a B.M. in music performance. You must audition for both, though you can audition for the B.A. when you get there; you must audition as part of the application process for the B.M. The auditions are not coordinated with those at UCLA. In our case, they conflicted. But UCSB allows students to apply by CD. That would probably put you out of the running for a scholarship. Both UCLA and UCSB have scholarships for music. Those at UCLA range from $500 to $5,000.<br>
UC Berkeley offers a music major, a B.A. degree, in the College of Letters and Sciences that requires courses in music history, ethnomusicology, and performance; undergraduates can emphasize performance or composition as part of the major. The music history department is one of the best in the country, and the classes are small, so it is like a school within a school at Cal. There are many performance opportunities: an excellent orchestra and chorus that perform (separately and sometimes together) several times a year, concerto opportunities (by competition -- there are several "winners" each year), and a noon concert program that students can perform in as soloists or in ensembles (by competition). Musicians can also perform in other concerts, including performances of new compositions by composition students in the graduate school. They offer coached ensembles for course credit. They also subsidize lessons by teachers in the area, some of whom are professors at the SF Conservatory. Looking at the performance schedules for the year, it looked like there were far more opportunities for students to perform in public concerts at Cal than at UCLA. Many students in the music department are serious about performance; a small but not insignificant percentage go on to graduate school in performance or in conducting. The application process is the same as for entry into Cal generally.</p>

<p>Thanks, mamenyu.</p>

<p>Does anybody know anything about music departments at any other UCs? Which ones are strong? Weak? Where double-majoring in music is more accessible?</p>

<p>At UC Irvine, Nina Skolnick is an excellent piano teacher.
Apart from UCLA and UCSB, though, I don't think the other UC's have performance majors.</p>

<p>Thanks for that information.</p>

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<p>Here is UCI's music dept's page:</p>

<p><a href="http://music.arts.uci.edu/degrees.php#bmus%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://music.arts.uci.edu/degrees.php#bmus&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>