<p>What have your experiences been with financial aid awards and the double-degree programs? I have heard that aid is available all 5 years, but is it given at a higher level to account for the additional year and, thus, the overall higher sticker price?</p>
<p>I'm especially interested in the availability of merit aid. Does the conservatory award separate from the college or do they coordinate?</p>
<p>And in your experiences who was most generous/stingy?</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts!</p>
<p>The only program for which I can speak is Lawrence University, and it is a bit different, as the college and conservatory work together more closely than most. My son was awarded financial aid good for five years. It was NOT given at a higher level, but was strictly based upon EFC. It included both merit aid and need-based aid. This was not separated into conservatory and college aid, but Lawrence may not be the norm in that, as I said. (My son ended up not choosing Lawrence, despite the fact that they offered the best FA package.)</p>
<p>Of daughter's three acceptances, Oberlin and Peabody offered exactly the same amount of merit aid (possibly unusual for Peabody because I hear they generally do not offer much) and NEC offered nothing at all (which I hear is typical). Our EFC was too high to qualify for need-based aid from any of them.</p>
<p>At Oberlin, the Conservatory merit-aid money is awarded by the conservatory based on the audition and the instruments they feel are most needed. At one information session they said that they awarded merit aid to about a third of those accepted, generally in the amount of $8000 to $12000 per year, renewable for four years for Conservatory students and five years for double degree students. As long as the student maintains a certain grade level, the scholarship money keeps coming automatically without the need to reapply. </p>
<p>That was the deal for the class that started in September of 2005. Since then, I have heard that they have plans to intentionally reduce Conservatory admissions to get to about 520 students rather than almost 600 over the next several years. One of the ways they may use to accomplish that goal is reducing the number and amount of merit scholarships, and possibly by making them renewable for four years for everyoone. You should check with the Conservatory office if Oberlin is a possibility.</p>
<p>Need-based aid there is administered by the same office for both the Conservatory and College and you must re-apply every year.</p>
<p>I believe it is typical to award financial aid for 5 years; however, you definitely need to pay attention to the individual school policies. I have never heard of need awards which are higher than the EFC. Gaps and large loan amounts are way more likely. Issues can arise when need or merit awards are from different institutions or different colleges within a university or different departments within a college. If a students drops one of the double degrees, FA may alter drastically. At UR/Eastman, we were told that the cost would be based on UR tuition which is greater than Eastman tuition. FA from both colleges would not piggy back but the lowest offer would apply.</p>
<p>Also, double degree students should check fees for excess hours. This can add up to many $1000/year for a DD student with a heavy workload. These excess fees would not be included in FA calculations.</p>
<p>BassDad are you saying the most merit money available is in the 8-12 range and that any other need base money would be what a loan that would have to be repaid? Or do they give other types of funds that dont have to repaid other than merit scholarships. Oberlin seemed to indicate 100% of need would be met but were not as clear how that woud break down between loans and other types.</p>
<p>8-12 out of 40K sure would not work for us. 30K in debt every year for 5 years would never be recoverable.</p>
<p>My son attends Oberlin although he is not in the conservatory. He is a freshman this year. He received a very nice merit award and a grant. In addition he was offered a subsidized Stafford loan, a small Perkins loan and work study. (We have 2 in college so that is taken into account.) Anyway, the total amount of loans was around $3000. That plus the merit scholarship and grant money came within a couple of thousand dollars of our EFC. </p>
<p>As an aside, when he declared Oberlin as his first choice for NM his package was adjusted by adding $2000 to his merit aid and subtracting work study and part of the Perkins loan. I was pleased to see that they did not take it off the grant. </p>
<p>When my older one graduates the grant money will disappear, but the merit scholarships will remain at their current levels.</p>
<p>FluteMomLiz,</p>
<p>Oberlin awards a mix of need-based aid, some types of which have to be repaid and some of which do not. It is possible to get both a merit award and a need-based grant that would reduce the actual cost of attendance well below $30K, depending on your EFC number. I think the conservatory may also offer a small number of merit awards above $12K to people they really want. You can also reduce your costs by a few thousand per year by joining residential and dining coops which require about 5-6 hours of work per week. Daughter reports that the food is far better in the coops than in the dining halls. </p>
<p>Oberlin says that they meet 100% of need, but they no longer claim to have a need-blind admissions policy. I do not know how much your chances are hurt by checking off that box on the application that says you will be applying for need-based aid.</p>
<p>Financial considerations for a double degree can get ugly. The situation can be bad even for a regular conservatory applicant. It can be hard to find suitable teachers, suitable conservatories and then worry about the audition process. Adding financial considerations is another level of difficulty and choices start to become limited. By the time you look at a double degree, it is even worse. You need to consider the admission process and which programs are feasible and encouraged. I am not sure which are likely to have good financial aid. UR/Eastman used to be good. I am not sure how they are doing with endowments and finances. I think they used to get a lot of support from Kodak but that source had to have dried up. As BassDad pointed out, Oberlin is adjusting financial considerations in order to end a trend which has been moving toward financial trouble. I don't know if they still meet need, but Oberlin has clearly stated a policy of reducing FA expenditures and considering costs when making admission decisions. We heard a similar story at Peabody. They have limited funds and cannot always meet need. They also consider costs when making admission decisions. It is a very good idea to include some financial safeties, such as State U's with reasonable costs.</p>
<p>Back to where we started of it probably being better to not even apply to expensive schools.</p>
<p>Bassdad, can you explain more about why Oberlin is reducing its Conservatory numbers? I have read something about this, but don't understand it clearly. It seems that accepting fewer students potentially hurts the program, but is this for financial reasons only?</p>
<p>And for everyone else, does not needing aid make any difference in conservatory admissions? Merit aid would be very nice, yes, but we won't qualify, or even apply for need based aid.</p>
<p>Lawrence University has a solid financial aid program for their students including "super seniors" or 5th years. It is broken down on their financial aid page by family size and income. I found it to follow very closely to what they say there.</p>
<p>The stated reason that Oberlin is reducing the numbers at the Conservatory is that they feel the facility is getting a bit crowded. With upwards of 600 students in the Con plus some from the College taking elective music classes there, they have a point. They have more students going through that building right now than at almost any time in their history and they would like to back off the numbers a bit.</p>
<p>Reasons that they seem to prefer not to mention are that they would like to see their selectivity increase a bit in some departments (not flute or voice) and they want to be a bit more selective in awarding financial aid. They do not have a huge endowment by most standards. They cannot continue both a need-blind admissions policy (something they have not had for several years) and a policy of meeting 100% of demonstrated need (which they still seem to be doing pretty well without piling on the loans.) </p>
<p>In an effort to raise the endowment per enrolled student, they are working on both the numerator and the denominator by trying to raise more funds while simultaneously reducing the annual amount withdrawn from endowment earnings and also reducing the number of students. They do not seem to be in dire financial straights yet, rather they are taking these actions to prevent that from happening.</p>
<p>At Oberlin, the Conservatory and College are totally separate admissions and same with scholarships. It is very possible for a double degree student to receive both a talent scholarship from the Conservatoy and a merit scholarship from the College. Merit scholarships from the college seem to be heavily influenced by SAT sores. Both the talent and merit scholarships are renewable for 5 years for double degree students.</p>
<p>edad-at Oberlin, double degree students can take an extra credit each semester without having to pay extra.</p>
<p>BassDad-do you have a link to any article stating that Oberlin is reducing the number of Conservatory students?</p>
<p>I have no link to any articles that talk about the planned reduction. It was discussed in some detail at last year's Conservatory Parent's luncheon on drop-off weekend, with the Dean of the Conservatory and most department heads present. The teacher who was sitting at our table was my source for the information above and beyond the official party line.</p>
<p>Another trick that Oberlin double degree students can use to avoid having to pay for credits in excess of 17 is to take their musical ensembles for 0 credits instead of 1. The workload is in no way reduced, only the number of credits granted that semester and the class still goes toward filling ensemble requirements.</p>
<p>OK, I did find this link to the Strategic Plan they issued in March 2005:</p>
<p>On page 12 it states that they plan to reduce overall enrollment by 163 students by 2010 while eliminating 7 college faculty positions and 5 conservatory faculty positions through attrition. If the ratios are consistent, that would mean about 68 of the 163 reduction in students would come from the Conservatory. That is in line with what was being discussed at the Parent's luncheon. The Strategic Plan is very upfront about stating that they plan to lower the discount rate and reduce endowment payout, so I was wrong when I said that they preferred not to mention those issues.</p>
<p>That is not encouraging. I didnt know they were having financial difficulties.</p>
<p>Sounds like the odds of getting admitted and getting FA have both taken a serious hit.</p>
<p>Oh well need to find another school for the short list.</p>
<p>They certainly gave us no indication they were downsizing and seemed very eager to recruit applicants.</p>
<p>I wouldn't be jumping on this as an admission of "financial difficulties." My read is that they see a less than desireable future trend and they are getting things in order BEFORE they truly have financial difficulties.</p>
<p>Seeing this in a financial report for a company is a good thing. Seeing it in a long-range plan at a college is pretty heady stuff and speaks highly of their vision.</p>
<p>FluteMomLiz,</p>
<p>The reductions are not going to be uniform across departments. The rumors I heard were that probably two of the five reduced positions are coming from the piano department and none at all from flute. I don't think the admission odds will change much on that account.</p>
<p>The odds will be somewhat higher for students that need a lot of financial aid, both in terms of admissions and receiving enough aid to be able to attend. Whether that constitutes a "serious hit" remains to be seen.</p>
<p>If you have not already seen it, there is some useful information at:</p>
<p>That is the baseline from which the reductions (which they describe as gradual) will be made.</p>
<p>I had seen that in the past, good to look at it again.</p>
<p>Is a Grant always something that does not need to repaid? And is the difference between that grant and demonstrated need EFC then supplied in loans? Difference between "Grant" and "Award" is that the award part is a loan?</p>
<p>Zep whether its current or anticipated financial difficulties, the difference is irrelevant to our situation if it results in fewer need students being admitted.</p>
<p>BassDad the problem I have with your first post for us, is you mention attrition and with Debost being the age he is, well into his 70s, that is a big consideration. Does it become his wifes program or do they leave together? They have a history of Flute excellence but the unknown is always unsettling.</p>