<p>Within the Service Academy forums, we have had several comments pro/con about reimplementing the draft so everyone would put in military service to their country. It has also been suggested that we incorporate a public service requirement as an alternative. </p>
<p>We have a lot of intelligent folks out there from many different persuasions I would like to hear from. Without inflamatory comments, could we try to discuss how something like this could possibly work? Since I am starting this thread, I am making 2 huge assumptions:
1 - funding is not an issue and
2- M & F would have to serve between ages 18-21 for min. 18 months. </p>
<p>My rationale is that the last time of the draft, it was only for males and only those with low draft numbers (it was a lottery!) had to serve in active service and there were lots of possible "outs" (e.g. Clinton & Bush). </p>
<p>Personally, I can think of many variants on the Peace Corps, Job Corps, Americorps, Park Service, municipal services, etc. that could use energetic young labor as well as our armed services.</p>
<p>I have an issue with the 18 months part. We must maintain a level of experience and leadership to allow reasonable level of protection on the front lines and elsewhere. I think 4 years is a reasonable minimum.</p>
<p>Also, a key factor is to predict the need so that we don't have to quickly insert people without time for the best training we can give them, and that they deserve.</p>
<p>I think the required military service is a terrible idea. This is America. I'm not applying to West Point because I have to. If I end up in Iraq it will be to make sure other people don't have to. F slavery.</p>
<p>I think bringing it back would be a great idea. Though I would even consider a lesser requirement, maybe one year for military. Mandatory boot camp 6 - 8 weeks and a service option of their choice. If they choose military than 1 year commitment, peace corp or civil service then a 2 year commitment. If they choose military they are in the reserves for 5 years, one weekend a month and two weeks a year.</p>
<p>If you complete this obilgation you would become eligible for Federal Financial Aid. If you choose not to take Federal Financial Aid you could remain exempt provided you are enrolled in college full time, until the age of 21. If you have no college aspirations selective service would be obligated to the above minimum service requirement and you would be placed in the pool of first available reservists.</p>
<p>That is just my opinion, but I think everyone should have an interest in protecting and serving our country.</p>
<p>Taffy mowing my yard for the next 18 months? Yea, I think I like the idea! LOL I can have him stay here with me and never never leave. Joking aside. What if its not military service? What if its as KP suggested, some kind of public service. Think of the things to be learned. If it were military service required, it would indeed be called a draft. So not sure I could agree with that. I pushed my kids to become involved in some way. Offering services to the hospital, doing a reading group at the library, can drives for the needy, any community service. Its not a bad idea. But how does a government go about implementing such an idea without it being what Taffy said "forced labor"? They'd booger it all up, I'm sure.</p>
<p>I think a draft would certainly shutup all those liberals who are constantly calling Bush a 'draft dodger'. Let's institute a draft and see how many of them actually answer the call!</p>
<p>DMeix, I could show you a real hippie. My brother never came out of the era. He's still a hippie. Don't think he's hypocritcal, he just doesn't care. Thats a real hippie. Friggin' is a pretty good description of him too. But he'd snap if someone threatened me or mine & he's really proud of my son getting into an academy. </p>
<p>My neighbors came from South Africa and he served two years in their military. Not sure its required in that country now. But he made his two sons join their choice of service upon turning of age. He feels strongly that they need to give back to this country for providing them a safe & free place to live. They had a pretty rough time in South Africa. I recall the first time they'd hung Christmas lights and were amazed that no one came along to steal them or to shoot guns at their rudolf in the yard. How sad I take little things like that for granted here. He has told some real horror stories and the more we know, the more we understand why he feels the way he does. Talk about loving this country! </p>
<p>Serving your country in some capacity is a good good idea. Our freedoms are not free.</p>
<p>Good idea for both sexes for a year or two after high school. Doesn't have to be military necessarily but learning discipline would be helpful. It could teach these young adults to be better citizens to our country and not so self-centered as many are. They might become more knowledgeable about their country and the world they live in.</p>
<p>"What if its not military service? What if its as KP suggested, some kind of public service."</p>
<p>still slavery. volunteer all you want. once its forced it isn't volunteering.</p>
<p>"friggin' hypocritcal hippies"</p>
<p>it would be hypocritical to be a draft-dodger and implement a draft. also, it would be hypocritical to be a draft-dodger and start a war. It is not hypocritical to be against the war and against being drafted. </p>
<p>oregonmom: since you're proposing sending adults into whatever you're thinking of, wouldn't it make sense for all americans, not just ones out of your age group, to be forced to attend also?</p>
<p>Assuming that the War on Terror is a "real war," in which our army can be called upon to invade en masse an unfriendly power at a moments notice after acquiring enough intel to tell us that an unfriendly power is harboring terrorists which it refuses to turn over (see Afganistan and Iraq) then the circumstances require a draft. There is no reason to believe that Afganistan and Iraq are the last two nations we will ever need to invade in the war on terror. Given the proven fact that once we do invade such a foreign power we will need THOUSANDS of troops to remain there (perhaps for years) until stability is restored, WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS with the current all volunteer army. Until we come to grips as a nation that we are at war we will continue to treat it as some far off exercise that only a small part of the population needs to sacrifice for. That is just plain wrong. We mobilized more troops (draft) for Vietnam, Korea, and WW2 and those conflicts in reality posed more a threat to the survival of Europe and the far east than they did to America. America's homeland is under more of a direct, immediate, and devastating threat from nukes, chemical weapons, terrorist activities, etc than she ever was from Hitler, Tojo, N Korea, or N Vietnam. That's not worth a draft? Something is wrong.</p>
<p>The concept of a National Service Obligation (military or non-military) for all our young adults sounds great in concept. I would love to see it happen.</p>
<p>However (you knew it was coming), I don't see it as workable within the current American culture. </p>
<p>For my illustration I will use a recent incident at our high school. Parents were complaining that there was too much litter along the street in front of our school and on its campus. I made a suggestion that we have all the students routinely clean up the litter. My thought was that it would give the students greater ownership in the school's appearance and possibly reduce the litter since a fair amount of it was student-generated and the students would know they would have to pick it up.</p>
<p>I fully expected the students to resist the idea but I found the parents more outraged than the students. They were offended by the suggestion that their child be subjected to such a menial chore. I can imagine the reaction of the offended parents if I suggested we put their child in the military for a couple of years.</p>
<p>I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see a military draft getting implemented unless we have foreign invaders on our soil with weapons drawn.</p>
<p>Shogun, you must realize by now that I do do do respect your opinions. I didn't think you'd like this topic too awfully much. No way would I ever want to argue with you & I don't feel what I'm going to say is argument... But.... What about the kids who don't lend much. Ya know, don't contribute to our society? Wouldn't it be a good experience for them to give alittle back for what they take advantage of in living in this good free society? I'm not sure I would go as far as required military service unless they were given the options as in what Weski suggested, but why not have them give some of their time to worthy causes here at home. Things that help our society. They'll live in a big bad adult world someday & why not make it better? It doesn't have to be all about military service. Just step up to the plate and help in some way. I see so many kids who are so worried about their $100 tennis shoes (example) that they don't have any other priorities. All of us here seem to be pretty ok parents & ended up with some solid kids who are dedicated to something. Some kids just don't have the direction needed to put something above their wants. To find something good in life. If a kid wants an education from ROTC, s/he knows it comes with some strings. Its different for them. They have a direction. </p>
<p>I hate to go off on a tangent. But you know I'm gonna. I'm Jamzmom. LOL I will never forget the first time my older son volunteered at a kids shelter. He came home broken. He went to go help some tutor high school kids living in a shelter that had no one. When he got there, he found a baby sitting in one of those carriers under a tree screaming & crying. He'd never held a baby but went right over and picked it up to comfort it. He looked around and saw several kids that went to his high school that were living in this shelter. He freaked and decided that from that moment on, he'd help the less fortunate. He couldn't believe that no one wanted this baby in his arms or his school mates. It shook his tree which shook my tree. Not that I'm trying to educate anyone on goodness, compassion, & humanity here. Everyone has a story. I guess I'm just trying to say, that without showing kids a path, without letting them know that there are people out there that need help, they'll go on thinking about nothing but themselves and their $100 tennis shoes. They can't help it as they haven't had exposure to more important issues. Some of our kids had to do mandatory community service through school. I feel lucky that my kids went to such schools. They got great pride out of doing something they thought helped. I think most kids do. </p>
<p>Now that I'm done with that big lump in my throat....sorry, the baby gets me every time....what would you think of giving kids choices to serving in some kind of capacity? Doesn't have to be a draft into military. That will never fly. Just some kind of committment. I just sit around and wishful think alot I guess and this has popped into this silly head before. Not a good idea? I dunno. I'm leaning towards if it could be done, something would be right. No harm no foul. And Taffy, sure I'd join. I do some now, but not enough I think. Maybe I should get off this computer & get out there spending my time doing constructive things. And maybe that is a fab idea.</p>
<p>You are right Aspen. I can well imagine that scenario with the trash. Can you blame the parents? Or do you blame the kids? See, if it were me, I'd blame me & be out there with my poor little trash bag, all alone, cussing each & everyone of them. LOL Such a simple simple thing like picking up trash & it ends up as an insult of sorts. Crazy!</p>
<p>Aspen, I fear you are right about our culture. When I started teaching, the punishment for getting caught chewing gum was scraping gum. We could never in a million years get this to fly today. The parents would squeal like stuck pigs.</p>
<p>Although more troops are not needed in Iraq, the existence of further conflicts with terrorists or terrorist countries I feel does require a draft. Military duty for a short term (18 months?) or a public service requirement of 2 years is an idea I feel works. What our country also needs is a secure border, so why not work for Home Land Security as a volunteer/drafted border patrol assignee? Shogun yes - we are at war!- now it is time for our society to understand that concept. A larger military, some assistance given to a service entity, and a role in homeland security cant be all wrong. Even those who are college bound should not be exempt! Giving back to the security of America should be required of all 18 24 years olds. Heck Id like to spend some time at the border helping defend the homeland!!</p>
<p>crusading the entire middle east isnt going to solve our problem there.</p>
<p>rockeymnt - if you want to, go join the border patrol. sure you'd have to drop your current life and detach from society, but thats what you're suggesting for everybody else. </p>
<p>and I thought I was in the land of the free...</p>
<p>spidermom, don't tell that to my students. If they're chewing gum I give them a scraper and tell them to go out and bring back five different colors of gum. If the parents complain, I invite them to sit in class and observe their child's behavior. They really hate to be inconvenienced and their offspring are mortified. The behavior normally comes to a screeching halt.</p>
<p>taffy - Why do you think you'd be dropping out of society to serve it?
I have a family and can't just show up at the border, but a young member of society - most likely not starting a family - can contribute to the very country that gave them their freedom!! You are hoping to attend USMA thus giving service to the US, why can't all kids around your age do the same at a different capacity? You dont know that I serve our country everyday working for a Police Department; using my talents for the border patrol would be appropriate, just not practical at my age of 54 and with a family in Colorado.</p>