<p>ANY school is a party school if that is what your student is looking for. If a student doesn't want to drink and party at a large state university, there will be many others that feel the same way. Conversely, if a student attends a small, religious school and wants to find a party, (s)he will find out where to go.....don't kid yourself.....</p>
<p>I don't find it particularly appalling. Partying is fun, and drinking undeniably enhances that fun for a lot of kids. It's as simple as that.</p>
<p>I don't get any vibe of "you should be drinking" by the "silence" of college administrators or parents. The vibe I get, rather, is "we know you might drink, we don't care, just don't do anything stupid or dangerous". It's a message and approach I approve of. America needs to shrug off the vestiges of neo-prohibition that remain from the early 20th century and the MADD campaigns in the late 20th century. The American relationship with alcohol is really truly very, very dysfunctional, and a major waste of time and money for all involved.</p>
<p>There is a disconnect here. Big difference between a student who "constantly parties" and one who goes out on Friday and/or Saturday night. When I was in school, most/many students went out partying on Friday or Saturday night (occasionally Thursday night if they didn't have to go to class the next morning), which was pretty much the norm. That would be considered binge drinking now, or at least a 'drinking problem', if I understand the current standards. </p>
<p>"Constantly drinking"?... now that is a problem, in the literal sense.</p>
<p>"I believe this was discussed in another thread... wasn't the definition of 'binge drinking' changed?"</p>
<p>Not in a way that made any difference. The change came in February 5, 2004 from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism:</p>
<p>pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/Newsletter/winter2004/Newsletter_Number3.pdf -</p>
<p>The definition was changed to reflect how much alcohol one would need to imbibe to be legally intoxicated, and, generally, went from "5 drinks in one sitting" (or episode) to "5 drinks in two hours". Ironically, it didn't make a bit of difference in the data when researchers went out to measure it. Among college students this is because experimental data show that: 1) they underestimate the number of drinks they had; and 2) the average drink poured by a college student is 1.8X a standard drink. In other words, the numbers you see cited are underestimates, sometimes radical underestimates, of what Califano calls "the intensity of excessive drinking", as well as actual numbers (the "average" 4-drink drinker, classified as a non-binger, on average had 5 drinks, each 1.8X the standard, or NINE drinks, and half them had more, and is not classified in the binge category.)</p>
<p>So the "intensity" really has increased, really increased. But incidence hasn't. Despite the increases of the 1990s, there are fewer people binge drinking than in the late 70s/early 80s. The change in the drinking age had real, positive effects both on the incidence of drinking and binge drinking, and on fatalities related to drinking.</p>
<p>But then, you have to turn again. College drinking among white, male, relatively well-to-do students at residential colleges in non-urban settings is likely close to an all-time high, and much higher than among non-college youth, or college youth in urban settings.</p>
<p>Heartlandmom:</p>
<p>And you have no responsibility for the behavior of your child?</p>
<p>"If your children aren't a good fit for those types of schools, there is little alternative to sending them to a college where alcohol abuse will be rampant. What choice do families have?"</p>
<p>Actually, this is not true. The differences among campuses, even those which on the surface might seem quite similar, can be quite real, and even radical.</p>
<p>Consider, for example - an average residential college will have 20% total abstainers, say 40% binge drinkers, and 40% moderate drinkers. On such a campus, the non-bingers are still a majority. Now take a 12% swing toward binge drinkers, and all of a sudden, moderate drinkers and abstainers are a minority. Swing 12% the other way, and non-bingers are a strong majority. The feel of these campuses will be very, very different when it comes to drinking, even though, on paper, the student bodies (and the curriculum, etc.) look very much the same. </p>
<p>The example is not hypothetical, in fact: I've just described LACs #1 and #3.</p>
<p>There are predictors of heavy drinking campuses: rural, residential, coed, predominantly white, heavy on spectator sports, non-religious, relatively wealthy student body; fraternities; northeast/Midwest. (I would also have added a lack of older students, but the data hasn't been tested on that front.) I know of no school with all 8 characteristics with below average binge drinking rates. Start taking away the predictors, and, in mnay cases, binge drinking rates fall.</p>
<p>Which isn't to say that campus cultures or administrations can't effect changes - they can, and have (Hobart/William Smith is an example). But the major point is that campuses that are not "dry" vary hugely among themselves, and you have to kick the tires.</p>
<p>WIStv.com</a> Columbia, SC: Clemson students charged after freshman's alcohol-related death</p>
<p>Another alcohol death on campus. Sad.</p>
<p>college kids NEVER drink. its all lies. jesus told me</p>
<p>I think the current prohibition against drinking for a majority of college students has led to increased binge drinking. Back in the day.....we would go out one night and get two for one watered down drinks at a club, go home and go to bed....Better that you have someone measuring out the alchy (post waterdown) than having the kids pour it themselves. It certainly seems like more are dying now from ach. poisoning. That is very very sad.</p>
<p>It is often hard to see anything approaching "current prohibition" at many campuses. In spite of harshly written policies, there is often a don't ask, don't tell policy concerning alcohol in the dorms. Immediately around any campus, there will be a string of businesses, mostly bars, making money off of college students. In the small college towns this can be a substantial source of income and underaged drinking is largely ignored. Any crudely made fake ID is likely to be accepted.</p>
<p>I also do not remember back in the day with a couple of watered down drinks. Back in my day there was plenty of heavy drinking.</p>
<p>"I don't understand how kids going to 'good schools' have the time to constantly party. It makes me think that the schools aren't challenging enough."</p>
<p>They figure out ways, not sure how...and I was never able to master those ways but kids can drink 5 nights a week and still ace diff eq. and ochem. Even at this "drinking school with an engineering problem."</p>
<p>Another interesting issue that may arise regarding excessive drinking on college campuses concerns potential liability of college advisors/counselors who recommend that a student add a school or schools to that student's college list, and then a serious alcohol related incident adversely affects that student at one of the colleges added by counselor recommendation. This is especially pertinent if the counselor recommended school had a well known reputation for excessive or binge drinking and, for proximate cause purposes, the harmful incident occurs in the student's first semester at college. Possible reasons that drinking on college campuses is more serious now include: use of straight liquor as opposed to just beer at a keg party, more severe penalties for dui/dwi offenses that now, in part due to the internet, remain on one's record forever, inability to obtain employment if one has a record of a dui/dwi or other substance abuse offense, more common mixing of alcohol and drugs. Simply matching a student with colleges based on admissions criteria and courses of study may now be inadequate college advising as "campus culture" should also be addressed.</p>
<p>The OP indicated that she doesn't know why colleges tolerate alcohol abuse.</p>
<p>As a college administrator, I can tell you that we require all entering students to take a 2-hour online alcohol education seminar on which they have to take a test with a passing grade, before they can move onto campus. We continue the awareness programming during the orientation days before the start of classes, and sponsor many creative ongoing alcohol awareness programs throughout the year, which are well-attended. Campus enforcement has both an educational, a punitive, and a conversational component, and students found intoxicated outside are also subject to arrest. The local underage alcohol laws in our community are quite severe. Our peer RAs in the residence halls are well-trained and do a good job of establishing community standards. Greek organizations are involved in special efforts, and are subject to organizational sanctions as well as individual ones. A second campus alcohol offense results in a substance abuse assessment as well as sanctions, and a third usually results in suspension for a semester. We err on the side of caution in deciding to have students seen by medical personnel, and I have no problem calling parents when I become aware of a situation that I believe poses an ongoing risk to their student. And with all that, the national figures of 70% underage drinkers and 40% binge drinkers are pretty accurate on our campus.</p>
<p>In response to the OP, I wish that police could eliminate crime and clergy could eliminate sin by just passing rules against those but, alas, that's not the way that real life works. College students are not immune from poor judgment. In fact, a college campus is in some ways a laboratory for immature decision-making by post-adolescents who are in training to be pre-adults. Both they and the fellow students who live among them need to maintain a healthy level of awareness.</p>
<p>JHS said at post #12:</p>
<p>
[quote]
What's different now is that we are LESS accepting of it than ever (or almost ever), and that college costs so much that the OP's question makes a lot of sense. But the issue isn't whether we want to go back to the good old days of in loco parentis, it's whether we want to try to achieve something never (or hardly ever) achieved before.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As a person in recovery, I suggest that college does not cause someone to drink to excess. And, if the person is going to drink to excess, there is little the college can do to prevent it. </p>
<p>The school can, after the fact is discovered, punish or expel the student. This at least probably informs the parents of the problem. Unfortunately (at least for me), parents of children with drinking problems often can't or won't accept that their children have one. </p>
<p>I read on these threads about parents who go on attack any time the college seeks to take punitve action against their son or daughter. Folks, its called enabling. Its not the school so much as the parents who can force the student to get help and it is not the school so much as the parents who ignore or refuse to believe there is a problem.</p>
<p>I've been asked by parents how they can know if their child might have a drinking problem. I usually suggest if they, the parents, can go witout any alcohol for 90 days, it is at least less likely that the child has a problem. Some parents are shocked and feel attacked by that answer. Hummmm....!</p>
<p>I don't know...It seems to me that some of the efforts to curb drinking in college and the 21 year old age limit have made matters worse. Neither my alma mater nor my kid's enforces drinking laws, and frankly, I think both have social scenes which are more sane than those that do. My alma actually releases its stats. While they are appalling to me, the amount of binge drinking is literally half the national average. </p>
<p>Why? I think that when you enforce the rules, the kids who drink go to different parties than those who don't. A LOT of kids tend to drink what they perceive to be the "average" amount. Take all the non-drinkers out of the equation, and the social drinkers drink more. Have everyone socialize together, and the kids in the middle drink less. </p>
<p>I also think that "all frosh" dorms make matters worse. I think a lot of people go overboard the first year or maybe even the first two years. Upperclassmen drink less, and again, the "average" amount consumed is less. Freshmen seem to drink less when there are more upperclassmen around--except in the frat context. Moreover, upperclass students are more likely to force the frosh who pukes all over the bathroom to clean it up....which is a big deterrent to some people.</p>
<p>So, to me, the right approach isn't "Stop all those under 21 from drinking," but rather "Learn to drink in moderation. Never drink to excess, no matter how old you are."</p>
<p>Here's my take-
Whereas when I was in college, there were kegs full of 3.2 beer, nowadays alcohol is verboten. So guess what- they do shots. Of hard stuff. It's easy to hide, kids can get it just as easily as a 6 pack and it takes up less room so they can carry it on their person (since it will not be made available at the club/party/bar). It's a lot easier for someone with an ID to go to the local liquor store and pick up a case of vodka, then serve up shots in a dorm room, fraternity room, apartment- unobtrusively- than it is to heft giant kegs and not be able to hide the evidence when the cops come calling. So college guys no longer stand around talking to girls with a beer in their hand (nor do the girls, might I add). Drinking is not 'social' because it's illegal. The act of imbibing alcohol has become, "do it fast, get it over with."</p>
<p>Even though I moan about the level of drinking that goes on at my D's college and it appears at every other college, I still find no fair way to explain the inconsistency with which we assign different ages to different acts of adulthood. It makes no sense to me. Never will. </p>
<p>As to the campus drinking issue I think there needs to be some enforcement by campus authorities or else the tension necessary to keep some equilibrium is lost. Now that is different than when I went to school. At least we had some restraints although I personally ignored them. Not "spies" or "random drug tests" , just some level of enforcement that says "drunken behavior is not acceptable" regardless of your age, but most especially if you are underage.</p>
<p>07DAD - you make some excellent points. I'd like to think that if my daughter were punished by the school for drinking or drug related behavior that can be substantiated, I would not do anything to interfere with the process, that I would let the natural consequences take place. Not only do schools have codes of conduct, etc. that are available to every student/parent, as far as I know, these codes of conduct are hammered in during freshman orientation, so I don't understand why parents are so quick to rush to the rescue, again, if the charges can be substantiated.</p>
<p>However, I, too, believe that the drinking age is an arbitrary number that is appropriate for some young adults, and inappropriate for some young adults who have exhibited a higher level of maturity. Frankly at 18 when it was legal to drink (for me in the 70s), I had an incredibly low level of maturity. I wouldn't say it improved much over the next three years when I turned 21. I know my kids drink at school; they know how I feel about it, and I suspect they know I will not hire the most expensive lawyers to rescue them if they are caught. It's a risk they take, along with many, many other risks that have the potential to create long-term problems if not careful.</p>
<p>I also totally believe the response you get from parents when you call into question their own ability to go 90 days without alcohol. My 'get to the gist' question often involves the issue of drinking and driving. People think I'm overboard when I share my belief that anyone who drinks and drives has an alcohol problem. Hello.... has anyone ever heard of a DD? There is no reason whatsoever to have more than two drinks, then drive; if you can't say no after two drinks because there is no DD, then you need to do some serious self-reflection. Yea, that one doesn't fly with people, either. Perhaps because the reality of drinking and driving and death has hit so close to home, I just don't get why someone does it.</p>
<p>Re #36:Know another reason why there are fewer kegs? In some states, the # has to be recorded when the keg is sold. The number is virtually impossible to obliterate and trying to do so is illegal. If the keg shows up at a party with underage drinkers, the purchaser is liable. It's much harder to prove who bought a bottle....</p>
<p>"I think the current prohibition against drinking for a majority of college students has led to increased binge drinking."</p>
<p>The data show that binge drinking among the majority of college students is substantially lower than it was before the drinking age was lowered. There are several reasons for this: 1) the average age of a student at a four-year college today is 24.5 years old - and older students binge less; 2) there are far more African-American, Hispanic, and female students - all of whom binge less; 3) there are far more students at urban institutions, and students at such schools binge less; and 4) the change in the drinking age really worked - we actually have side-by-side state-by-state studies of the impacts. It is true that binge drinking increased in the mid-to-late 90s, though not to the pre-change-in-age levels.</p>
<p>BUT for students at those institutions with the 8 characteristics I described earlier (which is a minority of all students), binge drinking is higher (though lower than five years ago.)</p>