<p>Curiouslee–I hardly doubt that the athletes at Duke and ND are barely literate! If you want to consider the literacy of athletes, just take a look at the schools in the SEC. Their athlete graduation rates are very far below what Duke and Notre Dame graduates. Neither Duke nor Notre Dame seem to have succumbed to trying to recruit athletes just based on their ability–they look at their academic ability as well. Which, may explain why the SEC athletic programs tend to overshadow the programs of Duke and Notre Dame. (Why don’t you compare the SAT scores/coursework of athletes in the SEC?) Duke and Notre Dame have elected NOT to sacrifice their academic programs for athletics!</p>
<p>^^ APR scores deal with graduation rates. It is entirely possible that schools with less rigorous curricula will have higher APRs. </p>
<p>When it comes to the average SAT scores of the Stanford vs. Duke bball teams, there is no comparison.</p>
<p>Duke once recruited (and later admitted) a basketball recruit who at the time of his recruitment did not even meet NCAA clearinghouse eligibility standards. The recruit had a 2.3 gpa and a 15 ACT score. (This has been verified by a Duke Chronicle article which is no longer available online, unfortunately.)</p>
<p>
With the others not far behind. </p>
<p>[SAT</a> Scores - Football](<a href=“Cardinal 247 - Stanford Cardinal Football Recruiting”>Cardinal 247 - Stanford Cardinal Football Recruiting)</p>
<p>Graduation rates are also roughly comparable.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/4696424-post95.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/4696424-post95.html</a></p>
<p>@ notre dame AL:</p>
<p>If you think three-digit SAT (M&V) scores constitute “academic ability,” then that explains why you’re a Notre Dame fan!</p>
<p>FWIW, ND’s high graduation rates for athletes may indeed indicate easy academics, if anything.</p>
<p>We’re talking about so-called top 25 schools here, so that would preclude discussion of SEC schools, except for Vanderbilt, which probably suffers similar problems as Duke and ND.</p>
<p>Athletes typically bring in more to schools with successful programs than they cost (UNC’s basketball team alone made about $25 million last year), and the student body as a whole benefits. I’d say that makes it acceptable to hold athletes to a different standard.</p>
<p>curiouslee–except for the fact that those “great” athletes that I am sure both ND and Duke would love to have, can only gain admittance to schools that are NOT in the top
25. The point being as I stated earlier, ND and Duke have not allowed their academic programs to slide based on admittance of athletic ability.</p>
<p>@ IBclass06:</p>
<p>I don’t see how the SAT scores of Duke football players are relevant to this discussion, since we’re talking about Duke’s bball program, which is their main revenue generator and the one that is most compromised, academically speaking. It is also the program upon which Duke has built its reputation. This is what I have a problem with. </p>
<p>In fact, I distinctly argued that it is the Duke bball players who are “barely literate.” I made no such claims about other Duke athletes. </p>
<p>Besides, your data is 12 years old. As I understand it, Duke has recently relaxed their admissions standards for their football recruits. Apparently, they are going to look more closely at the “intangible” qualifications of their recruits. Coincidentally and not surprisingly, last year’s and the current Duke football recruiting classes have been the most highly ranked since at least the 1980’s.</p>
<p>
A quick search for that article you mentioned reveals the following facts:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Average SAT for Duke men’s basketball is 997. Not much lower than Stanford football. </p></li>
<li><p>The average M/CR SAT for recruited athletes is 1212.</p></li>
<li><p>5 people out of the entire freshman class were recruited men’s basketball players.</p></li>
<li><p>79 freshmen were recruited athletes (4.80%); 1554 were not (95.2%).</p></li>
</ul>
<p>^ Try comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges.</p>
<p>Check out this link:</p>
<p>[Stanford</a> vs. Duke basketball: The difference in admissions standards | College Sports Hotline](<a href=“http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2008/11/05/stanford-vs-duke-basketball-the-difference-in-admissions-standards/]Stanford”>Stanford vs. Duke basketball: The difference in admissions standards - College Hotline)</p>
<p>BTW, both your Duke bball and Stanford football SAT scores are outdated.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Remove “at Duke, Stanford, and ND” and replace “recruited athletes are” with “lordoftehspierm is”. ;)</p>
<p>har har har</p>
<p>Borderline ■■■■■■■■? Try telling that to Jay Bilas.</p>
<p>I feel obligated to throw this in 
(previously posted on the BC page) :</p>
<p>YouTube - Bud Light: Real Men of Genius - Hopeless Notre Dame Fan</p>
<p>The Notre Dame fight song is the best. No question about it.</p>
<p>^^^^Not according to John Phillip Sousa, the march king. He said The University of Michigan’s fight song, “The Victors” was the best college march ever written.</p>
<p>^ Oh yeah? Well, UCLA thought Berkeley’s fight song was so bad ass, they copied it. ;)</p>
<p>Not exactly a fight song, but the “hey song” was recently banned at Syracuse University after the students developed a tradition of inserting some interesting and inflammatory lyrics into it. The older members of the band still know it though and pass it on to the younger members; if an occasion warrants it, the band will still play it even under threat of punishment.</p>
<p>UCB. Was that all they copied from Berkeley? Face it, as much as you know I admire Berkeley, certain things at Michigan are superior. This is one of them. ;-)</p>
<p>^ Yeah, I’ll give you that…football tradition, stadium, and fight song are superior. Classy, but not as catchy as U$C’s.</p>
<p>My point was John Phillips Sousa is one man, but clearly a worthy opinion in terms of music critique.</p>
<p>Much better than USC. The fight song, not the cheerleaders of course. Heck, as much as I dislike Notre Dame I’ll give it kudos for it’s fight song. However, I just can’t stand that stupid little leprechaun!</p>