Duke students offended by reading assignment lol

I was trying to think of some books assigned in my high school that had fairly graphic sexual scenes and I thought of a few - The Handmaid’s Tale, Atonement, Like Water for Chocolate - but then I remembered this isn’t even a high school setting, it’s college. In college I was assigned “Fanny Hill, or Memoirs of a Women of Pleasure” and “My Secret Life: An Erotic Diary of Victorian London.” We can argue about whether or not these books were appropriate, but it’s a bit silly to argue that this particular book is the first of its kind to be assigned in college and is only getting a pass because it was written by a lesbian. Come on now.

edit- Actually, rereading your comment, I’m confused. Who is “giving it a pass”?

I have to say that before reading the Vox piece and seeing the panels that are causing all the fuss, I thought the panels were a lot more graphic than they actually were. I find it really entertaining that this young man thinks they must be “pornographic.” Clearly he knows nothing about porn, which is always intended to titillate. Those panels were not intended to titillate. Yes, they depicted semi-nudity (I saw one naked breast and some pubic hair) and they showed a woman with her face between another woman’s legs. But there’s no sexual activity, or even arousal, depicted – the facial expressions and the body language of both women are entirely calm and tranquil. If anything, it’s almost too impersonal, to the extent that it’s implausible. Any Batman comic book has more emotion in it.

I find it really pretty sad that avoiding something this innocuous is so important to this kid that he’s going to deny himself exposure to any kind of art or literature where he might run into something like it. It seems to me to be a very impoverished life.

Outside of that, however, this all seems like a tempest in a teacup to me. He’s not asking for Duke’s reading recommendations to be changed; he doesn’t even seem to be trying to get other students to object to reading this book. He just refused to read it and made a public statement to that effect (kind of silly, I think, but whatever, he’s a teenage kid so of course he takes himself too seriously) and then wrote an op-ed in response to the kerfuffle that ensued. I think he’s both misguided and likely to miss out on a lot of enriching experiences, but hey, it’s his life.

After this thread I went immediately to order the book. However, it’s out of stock at amazon!! Hopefully it will be back soon. :slight_smile:

If anyone in your household has a kindle, it’s available that way.

@alh - I do have a kindle (or at least the app) - but it looks like the kind of book I’d prefer to have on paper, with the illustrations/etc.

I prefer all books on paper, but ran into the same problem you had. It’s not too difficult to read on kindle. I’m still getting used to mine and hate not being able to easily move back and forth through the book. I don’t necessarily read books straight though. If they are suspenseful, I go right ahead and read the ending.

My kids gave it to me and it has been very useful for travel. And for situations like today. :slight_smile:

I think Fun Home cost $5. I may pick up a hard copy when I find one.

So much for the Rape of the Sabine Women - better not study that either.

http://artpedia.■■■■■■■■■■/post/18624314807/giambologna-the-rape-of-the-sabine-women

Pizzagirl, the book Loukydad mentions was written by a homophobic woman raised by a lesbian mother, who blames her problems on her mother’s sexual orientation, and – of course! – tries to universalize her own experiences by arguing that there are negative effects in general from being raised by gay/lesbian parents. Contrary to every single study/survey that’s ever been done. Somehow I doubt that you’d want to spend your time reading that kind of thing.

"Why does the university feel the need to cramp sexuality and homosexuality down everyone’s throat? What would a business/STEM major for instance get out of reading such a book? How does that help him/her in her main area of studies? Liberals love to go on and on about themselves, how I feel feel feel about who I am, how I’m such a victim of society, of my stupid parents, of the “system”. Give it a rest already. Some of us simply don’t give a crap about how the writer of this book feel about her own sexuality. We have bigger things to think about, like how to change the world with a new invention or how to make a living. "

This post is the classic reason why Duke and other schools assign books like this to incoming students and why they have core course requirements as well. College isn’t an extension of the “3R’s” education that seems to be what a lot of people think education is about. The idea of college is supposed to be about learning, it is not supposed to be a trade school where you learn about plumbing or electrical systems, it is supposed to be a place to learn to think. Why should a business/ Stem major get out of reading such a book? Well,if they plan to go into the work world, for one thing it teaches that there is a broad world out there, and also it teaches them that not everyone is a white, conservative Christian like themselves, or a liberal Jew from the upper west side or a suburbanite that thinks having a green lawn or a California laid back dude (I love stereotypes, they are fun to poke fun at). What does this do for a STEM major? Despite what conservatives believe, science is not about fabricating crap in a laboratory, science is all about questions, about learning about things we don’t know, and in science you are supposed to question things. If some guy claims to have created cold fusion in the lab, you don’t accept that he did, you get his results and check them. You would hope that a business curriculum would want people to learn to think and see things from different perspectives, especially given that one of the biggest disasters that befalls companies is when everyone goes along with the crowd (GM is a classic example of that, of an inbred culture that didn’t allow for independent thought or creativity). If you want your kid to learn a trade, send them to ITT tech or a trade school for being a plumber, that is not what college is for.

“Why does the university feel the need to cramp sexuality and homosexuality down everyone’s throat? What would a business/STEM major for instance get out of reading such a book?”

Just from poking and skimming, the book really isn’t about sexuality per se. It’s about secrets and how living a lie has so many consequences and prevents people from living their potential and being kind to those around them. If the father had been “allowed” to have been homosexual, he could have had loving relationships with others, instead of the dysfunctional relationship he had with the mother and with his children (including the author). Maybe in today’s world he would have gotten married to a nice man and lived a nice, quiet, happy life instead of the lie he was forced to lead and the consequences of that on those around him.

“Business” is a broad term. Someone who is running a tech startup or working as a financial analyst/CEO have no time for this kind of self-absorbed trash, same goes for most business owners except those who market specifically to the LGBT community. Do LGBT people somehow use AppleWatch or iPhone differently? Do they somehow need different features in their car? Do they need different coffeemakers? Eat different types of food? If not why should any ordinary business need to understand them specifically? Someone who plans to work in human resource on the other hand, is probably a LibArt major where such modern “literature” of self-absorption might come in handy, in case a potential recruit happens to be LGBT and the HR person feels the need to be “culturally sensitive”, but then don’t LGBT people just want to be treated like everyone else anyway? So why the need to be treated as a separate entity?"

When someone said that being conservative doesn’t make someone narrow minded, this post is a classic example of why people make claims like that,this post classically illustrates it. “The books is whiny trash, and is not great literature?”. How do you know? Have you read it? More importantly, are you aware that "great literature’ , that is commonly considered great literature, has been trashed as being garbage, immoral garbage, etc? James Joyce Ulysses was banned in the US (go figure, so much for our supposed freedom), today it is a standard text used in English classes. The are some on the left who say Huck Finn should be banned as ‘racist trash’ (and they are much like the OP on this one, many of them have not read the book or can’t get beyond its use of the N word) or want to ban the Merchant of Venice, or as happened in NYC, where they practically got a teacher fired because she assigned a book called “Nappy Haired” and claimed it was a racist insult, when the book was written by a black where it talks about the beauty of all kinds of hair types and looks, the people enraged never even read the book.

The OP also shows tremendous ignorance of the work world, my guess is they live in a place where everyone is the same, probably all straight white conservative Christians (at least on the surface). The answer to that is very simple, if you work anywhere but in small town America, you are going to be working with people who are different, who are Muslim, Jewish, atheist, people who are liberal, people who are gay, who are transgendered, who are from India and China and Russia and God knows where, and you have to understand people are different. More importantly, that those differences are what can help make a company stronger. If you believe everything in life is a balance sheet or a dupont valuation formula or lines of code, you are going to have a very hard time, because if you really want to do something special, it takes a lot of skills. There was an article in the NY Times recently talking about the kids who go to elite schools like HYP, who have been these monster students, 4. 0 GPA, get their Harvard MBA, then find themselves doing analysis work alone, that they don’t get promoted, don’t get the interesting assignments…and why? Because they lacked the soft skills, the human understanding and such, that are required to do such things. BTW, to say HR people are “libart” majors also shows how ignorant the poster is, Most HR managers these days are coming out of business schools with advanced level degrees in it, they are coming out of the same business schools that finance majors are coming out of.

Since the summer I’ve felt like I can take a break from the gay rights debate. I feel no moral or ethical obligation to engage with those still interested in that debate. It is even less interesting to me than debating evolution. In neither case am I silencing someone by refusing to engage.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/fashion/im-too-old-for-this.html?_r=0

I’m moving on to Are you my Mother? as soon as I complete Ferannte’s Neapolitan Trilogy, which I set aside to read Fun Home

(If I read that quote any more times, I’m going to go around using the phrase “cramp down my throat” too.)

It’s funny how it becomes “cramming down everyone’s throat” whenever it’s something a particular person doesn’t like. You could say similar things about just about every book out there. Nobody ever complains about the very strong Christian attitude in Little Women, or the subtle racist undertones in The Great Gatsby. Heck, I could object to my kids being assigned to read The Iliad because it glorifies war.

Maybe if people quit refusing to read books that they’ve decided in advance will push beliefs that they have already made up their minds they disagree with, they’d actually learn something in life.

“Clearing up another loose end. I am not sure this was completely understood. I was speaking of polyfidelity, plural marriage, and whatever else becomes the next group. The door is wide open now and there is no closing it.”

What is interesting is that many of those fighting same sex marriage as a ‘slippery slope’ defend ‘traditional marriage’ and cite the bible,yet they don’t cite Genesis that says marriage is between a man and one or more women. Poly marriage could well come from same sex couples, but it raises a lot more legal issues than same sex marriage did, all kinds of legal questions like taxes, and benefits, and in things like divorce law and child custody. More importantly, poly marriages will stand or fall on its own merits, if poly marriage is found to have no objections other than religious belief, if they cannot show how poly marriage would hurt society or somehow cause it to fall (after all, a lot of societies had/have plural marriages), then it will rise or fall on its own merits. It isn’t a slippery slope, it is that with interracial marriage, then same sex marriage, bans were overturned when they could find no argument against them that didn’t rely on religious belief of prejudice, much the same way that the Supreme Court threw out laws making some sexual acts criminal, when all the proponents could point to was religious belief. The same sex marriage case cited Loving, but as precedent based on the 14th amendment, all the cases relied on the constutition to decide them.

It was interesting to read the comments about for example Condeleeza Rice Speaking at a commencement and their being protest, and saying that was wrong. Why? If they had denied her the right to speak, if they had forced the school to change its mind, that would be one thing, but she got to speak her mind, and the kids got to speak theirs, which is the whole point of free speech. Should they be allowed to shout her down? No, but holding signs, turning your back, are forms of speech, it allows Rice her right to speak, and they to express their displeasure. Saying the kids had to sit there and not do anything would be just as wrong as saying Rice couldn’t speak there. When my sister graduated from Syracuse, Al Haig was the commencement speaker and the kids were pissed, partly because of Haig’s record, including supporting right wing Militias in south America that had just before the commencement slaughtered a number of nuns and priests who were preaching liberation theology, and partly because of Haig’s ties to United Technologies and its close ties to the school (he spoke in the Carrier dome, which is a UTC company). They had every right to protest, it was their commencement, too.

The whole point of college is supposed to be about expressing views, and Rice had no more right then the kids protesting her. I should have protested at my own commencement, not that the speaker was controversial, but it was Mario Cuomo and if you ever listened to one of his speeches, it went on for hours in the hot sun, and it went on and on about his immigrant parents and their store lol (and obviously, this is said tongue in cheek, though it was a looong speech and it was a warm day:).

My husband is a CEO in a traditionally male-dominated industry. Cultural sensitivity is critical to his role, in particular in regard to customer cultivation. He’s an atheist but he prays with his fundamentalist Christian customers. We speak English at home but he often speaks Spanish or Portuguese with his Hispanic customers. He doesn’t order certain foods when in a restaurant with his Hassidic customers. He’s careful of the language he uses when discussing gay rights, never knowing who, in addition to his obviously “out” customers are sensitive to such issues.* Knowing the history, geography, and literature of places around the world helps him connect with customers who weren’t born here. These people are all business owners, and offending one of them could cost DH’s company millions in sales. More to the point being aware of and responsive to who these people are and what they value has earned him business and customer loyalty.

*My father is a perfect example. An older, straight, white, wealthy, suburban, church-going Christian male, you’d think you could make all the Caitlyn Jenner jokes you wanted around him. You’d be wrong. He has a TG DIL and although he might not say anything you would have offended him.

There’s an article in this month’s *The Atantlic * that seems relevant. Some excerpts -

It’s at http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

I’m not sure what incident you are referring to, but at least in 2014 the protests ended with Condeleeza Rice withdrawing from giving the address at Rutgers and with Christine Lagarde being disinvited from Smith. Whether this constitutes denial of the right to speak depends on your taste in such matters.

Here’s a Harvard law professor writing about the impact on the curriculum at HLS -

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trouble-teaching-rape-law

My personal observation is that 15 years ago if you pointed out to a student that they were engaged in censorship they would deny it and would try to rationalize their behavior on other grounds. Now, it seems like they don’t even both to deny it. Their goal is censorship, and they are unashamed of it.

In fairness, Grasso himself doesn’t appear to be advocating censorship.

Based on Duke’s own statement about their summer reading list https://today.duke.edu/2015/04/summerreading2019 I’d say the recommendation to read Fun Home is serving exactly the purpose intended. Those who read the memoir will be able have discussions about “art and storytelling; about personal and sexual identities; about truth and lies, and the harm both can cause; and about judgment and forgiveness.” Those who refuse to read it at least are having to defend their “position on a controversial topic.”

I have been recommending Fun Home for years – it is the first (only?) graphic novel I have really enjoyed.

It’s OPTIONAL reading. If the students don’t want to read it, so what. Why is this even a discussion?

I know, because they tried to make it an issue.