<p>So... after the process of narrowing down choices, I have come to this tough decision--Duke V.S. Northwestern. I am an international applicant from China, and after my research, here is what I got.</p>
<p>In fact, my sources of information are 1) Internet (especially discussion forum like CC) 2) My friends in US who have actually visited both schools. I am not sure whether these information is correct or not... So I would be really appreciated if you can point out any incorrect info or provide any new information:) Any suggestions or advice are greatly appreciated!</p>
<p>So here is what I got:
I have found out that NU matches my future career plan: strong in Engineering and Economics/FinanceĀin particular, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science BS+MS five year program, and top-notch programs in Economics and Finance. Also, the various programs are really attractiveĀMMSS, ISP, etc. Other than that, I was impressed by the Āone university policyĀ in NUĀvirtually, any undergraduate can choose to enroll in any course from other schools. I can fully explore my intellectual interest in NU: I want to enroll in classes about journalism in the Medill School of Journalism, finance and business management in Kellogg School of Management, and explore my music potential in renowned Bienen School of Music. Although it is a pre-professional institution, I can choose to receive well-rounded education in NU, or so I believe. (The Trimester system also enables that:)) Finally, the internship opportunity is great in the big city of Chicago.
It appear to me that all aspect related to academic is better in NUĀ Yet, I heard that the students are little bit nerdy there, and there appears to be less of a unified sense of school spirit. </p>
<p>However, I heard that Duke is better in the aspects that NU is not--more reputation in US (really?) as well as in globe, the close-knit community (some people say that Duke alumni are really influential in Wall Street, like those of Columbia, Harvard, Dartmouth, and Penn), the school spirit, the typical college experience. However, I learn like that the reputation Duke stems largely from its medical-related program, and its starring NCAA team in sportsĀwhich may imply that I feel the academics aspect there is more somehow weak, in comparison with that of NU. I learnt that student in Duke is more laid-back, and therefore is not that in to the study, and not that "intellectual type". Is that correct? Is academic (other than medical-related program, especially the field that I am interested in, ECE, CS, ECON, and liberal-arts education) in not that strong? How do you think the internship opportunity will be like in Duke? (Some said that Durham is an extremely terrible place to look for internship, but the others say that strong connections between Dukies will lead to better internship opportunitiesĀ ?)</p>
<p>Sorry it is getting a bit too long, and some of the questions really get into detailĀ But again, any of your help will be greatly appreciated!
Thank you for sharing the information with me!</p>
<p>errrā¦not a scientific study at all but my Duke 09 son tells me that everyone who got into Duke NW and Wash U and came to Duke is soooooo Happy that they chose Duke. </p>
<p>Yes, Duke has stronger name recognition. Yes, Duke has very strong alum clubs in his city (where he hangs with Duke grads a lot) and in many major citiesā¦Boston, San Francisco, Atlanta, NYC and on and on. As an alum, he has a lot of appreciation for the Duke brand and high spirits. We are Not a sports oriented familyā¦very liberal arts and he was also in the Duke Symphony and went abroad on a foreign language program that was outstanding (truly outstanding) and he went to Russia with his FOCUS program.<br>
[This</a> is Duke. - YouTube](<a href=āThis is Duke. - YouTubeā>This is Duke. - YouTube)</p>
<p>Canāt emphasize enough how fun Duke is and how much all the students are total nerds who were tops in their high schools. Congratulations on your wonderful offers. You canāt go wrong either way really. Durham is no Chicago, but my sonās Chicago born and bred roommate Bleeds Blue and is so grateful he turned down NW and Wash U. Again, he can always return to Chicago to work and join the Duke alum club. Duke has fantastic global outreach and you can write your own proposals re research and foreign service projects via the Gates Foundation (Bill Gateās wife is a Duke grad). Duke has a fantastic arts and dance and music and writing program and is very strong in liberal arts. It is number 2 in the nation in Biomedical engineering. All of sonās Engineering friends got jobs in the depth of the 08/09 recession. Honestly. Go Duke. Unless you feel that Chicago itself is your true love. Chicago is a great city although miserably cold in the winter. Northwestern is not in Chicago proper but in a very handsome suburb. Dukeās campus in my opinion is much much more fun and more beautifulā¦only thing missing reallyā¦is Chicago. Not really since scores of Chicago students come to Duke annually and Californians and New Yorkers etc. But you will be working so hard academically speaking that you will love Dukeās stunning campus. </p>
<p>Here is where you will live as a freshman on East Campus
[A</a> First-Year Class Photo at Duke University - YouTube](<a href=āA First-Year Class Photo at Duke University - YouTubeā>A First-Year Class Photo at Duke University - YouTube)
The first year students live together on East Campus and really love being together a year. There are many many Chinese speakers in each class. I suppose that NW could be better than Duke in subcategories of engineering but overallā¦forget about it. Come to Duke. Do not think twice.</p>
<p>You have some very warped perceptions about intellectual life at Duke. Duke and NU are both great schools but Duke is arguably the bigger brand. We have more nobel laureates, more rhodes scholars, higher earning alumni on average. Duke has been ranked as high as 3rd on US News, I know thats very important to international students. Duke is more selective than NU and wins most cross admit battles with it. If you want to get a well rounded intellectually stimulating education, I would pick Duke although the difference between the two schools really isnāt significant. I would try to uncover more information about both schools, frankly you dont seem to be too well informed about the quality of education at Duke. Pratt has been the most improved engineering school in the entire country and Dukeās alumni network on wall street is absolutely legendary.</p>
Thatās a false statement. NU also has more faculty who are AAAS, NAS, and NAE members. [Nobel</a> Prizes still elusive for Duke | The Chronicle](<a href=āhttp://dukechronicle.com/article/nobel-prizes-still-elusive-duke]Nobelā>Nobel Prizes still elusive for Duke - The Chronicle)
Earning potential has very little to do with schools at this level; NU students are more diverse in terms of career goals as NU has top programs in film, theater, education, journalism, and music, not just in liberal arts and engineering. The ones in those fields are going to dilute the average earnings even if they went to Harvard.</p>
Congratulations on your acceptance to two incredible universities!! You are wrong however when you state that Northwestern is stronger in CS and the liberal arts overall-in fact its the opposite.</p>
<p>Here are the graduate rankings for all of the disciplines you are considering between Duke and Northwestern according to the National Research Council (S-Rank {Survey} and R-Rank {Reputation}):</p>
<p>Northwestern has the slight edge in Economics over Duke. The difference between NU and Duke in this field used to be a lot more pronounced but Duke has caught up quite nicely. Both universities are very highly ranked in this field as you can see so you canāt go wrong ( a slight nod to NU though).</p>
<p>Northwestern actually has a pretty weak Computer Science program at the graduate level so Duke has a very clear edge here in fact. In addition, the Research Triangle is a fantastic location for technology and computer science departments so Duke actually benefits from its presence in this research-intensive region. Duke is the better choice for Computer Science by a hefty margin.</p>
<p>Electrical and Computer Engineering
S-RANK
Duke: 10-40
Northwestern: 8-29</p>
<p>R-RANK
Duke: 30-58
Northwestern: 20-38</p>
<p>Northwestern has the better ECE program but neither are powerhouses in this discipline. I would investigate to see whether you prefer Pratt or McCormick better before making a decision. Duke has a stronger BME department for instance.</p>
<p>
You can do this at Duke as well and in fact its recommended. Its very common for engineers to double major and pick Economics or a foreign language as an additional concentration. Youāre free to take whatever classes youād like and can enroll in courses at nearby UNC-Chapel Hill if youād like, which does have a renowned journalism school if you wish to broaden your horizons. There are music performance classes offered at both Duke and UNC.</p>
<p>Thereās literally nothing you can do at NU that you canāt do at Duke.</p>
<p>
According to the new 2010 National Research Council ranking of American doctoral programs, Duke has more top-ranked programs overall than Northwestern although NU has certain strengths like Chemistry, Economics, and Industrial Engineering.</p>
<p>Here is PtonGrad2000ās methodology for determining these scores for the schools:</p>
<p>*Of all the fields surveyed by the NRC, Iāve selected for analysis only those at the core of the arts and sciences and have left out those primarily related to medical education in hospitals or specialized fields such as agriculture, public affairs, communication or specific area studies. Even within the arts and sciences Iāve left out some programs that have not traditionally been in this ācoreā. In some, Princeton does poorly. In others, it does extremely well.</p>
<p>These then, are the academic fields Iāve included from the NRC analysis: Classics, Comparative Literature, English, French, German, Spanish, History, Art/Architecture/Archeology, Music, Philosophy, Religion, Chemical Engineering, Civil Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Biochemistry, Biology, Ecology, Genetics, Neuroscience, Applied Math, Pure Math, Astronomy/Astrophysics, Chemistry, Computer Science, Geology/Geophysics, Physics, Anthropology, Economics, Political Science, Psychology and Sociology. These cover the major categories of the NRC survey known as Arts & Humanities, Engineering, Life Sciences, Physical Sciences/Math and Social and Behavioral Sciences.</p>
<p>Based on the quality assessment rankings in the combination of these disciplines Iāve scored based on the following system. If a school had an appearance in the top 20, it was given a sub-score for that discipline equal to 21 minus its rank. Thus, a school ranked number 1 would receive a sub-score of 20 for that discipline. A school ranked 20th would receive a sub-score of 1. A school not appearing in the top 20 would receive a sub-score of zero. In a small number of cases, two separate departments within the same university would both be included in the top 20 ranking. For example, Princetonās History department as well as its History of Science department both rank in this range. In these limited cases, Iāve represented that school with the department having the highest score. I summed the sub-scores and then converted the top combined score to 100 with all other scores taken as a percentage of the top score. The result of that scoring system is as follows.*</p>
<p>
Duke does indeed have one of the strongest alumni networks in the country. Just a couple of years back, it was tied for 2nd place in Alumni Giving behind Princeton. However, you are discounting Dukeās location-the Research Triangle is an excellent place to find tech-related internships during the summer.</p>
<p>At any rate, you will not be doing internships during the school year. You will be studying, participating in extracurriculars, and socializing with your peers. The internships are meant to be pursued during the Summer when school gets out so as to not to interfere with your academic pursuits.</p>
<p>Good luck with the decision and please let me know if you have anymore questions! :)</p>
<p>@Faline, Did you know that Youtube is completely blocked in China? XD</p>
<p>@stevenyy Dukeās student body as a whole may party more than NUās (this is just hearsay), but there undoubtedly exist social groups at Duke that are just as ānerdyā as their NU counterparts.</p>
<p>^I agree. Instead of nerdy, NU has more artsy types (music, film, performing arts) but the ones in arts and sciences or engineering are gonna be similar.</p>
<p>ļ»æļ»æLmaoZedong, sorry I forgot about Youtube being banned in China.</p>
<p>stevenyy, you can see many of the videos that I found on Dukeās Youtube page at duke.eduās website plus many many more. You should be looking at videos at NW and Duke. </p>
<p>great data from goldenboy! </p>
<p>College is also more than data. Once you are comparing the great gifts of open doors to NW or Duke, you canāt really lose. It is your duty to love your alma mater, to give your devotion to your four years and to extract the most you can from either college. If you do so, it will give back to you for the rest of your life. There are great students and great teachers at both institutions. Chicago is a very important city. NW has wonderful art programs that are world famous that benefit from access to Chicago.</p>
<p>Duke also spends a fortune on art and provides great art venues for the Triad to attend. Our son saw many many artists, musicians and performers that normally you can only see on stage in Europe and the best stages in America. </p>
<p>You canāt go wrong. But I do believe Duke has the stronger lasting impact in name recognition and in alumni organizations. Now that my son is 25, we see how much this matters in his career. But perhaps name recognition matters little in other fields. And it is fair to say that all graduate schools respect NW and Duke. </p>
<p>When it comes down to itā¦how you use Duke or NW is what makes the difference and comparisons between the colleges are sort of silly. </p>
<p>You will be judged on how much you maxed out the blessing of being part of either school by employers and by grad schools.</p>
<p>to add my two cents - I visited NU but never visited Duke. I would pick Duke though because I really didnāt like NU when I visited. It seemed all about theater and the arts(when I visited our tour guide just pointed to the massive science building and said āthatās the science building, iāve heard itās really big. Nobody I know has ever been in thereā)</p>
<p>Also, Duke will be warmer since it is in the south.</p>
<p>Thank you, I am really grateful for all your kind help!
I was really impressed by how much detailed information and personal insights you shared with me:) @Faline 2,@LmaoZedong, no worries! Luckily, I have VPN installed in my PC, and I can access all those video clips at ease.
Personally, I am tilted towards Duke more after reading through all these helpful posts. I am finalizing my decision, and I will tell you about that as soon as I decided.
Again, best wishes and thank you soooo much:P</p>
<p>Dont make assertions that you canāt back up with substantive evidence. I donāt think its particularly relevant to the discussion either, but I would still appreciate it if you didnāt make assertions of dubious veracity.</p>
<p>To be honest, the number of Nobel Laureates that a university has is not a big deal IMHO, especially at the undergraduate level. I donāt think Duke has any Nobel Laureates any more (Dr. Peter Agre was one, but he left Duke), but they often donāt teach undergraduates anyway.</p>
<p>I was not trying to be evasive; I just honestly think itās unimportant. I also know that you didnāt google if you really still donāt know.</p>
<p>I agree that the number of Noble Laureates is extremely unimportant except in how it perhaps reinforces a certain prestige. In any event, that should be like #500 on the list of the most important things to consider when making this decision. I grew up five minutes away from Northwestern, took classes on Northwesternās campus while in high school, worked under a Northwestern medical school professor with another Northwestern student over a summer, and went to Duke. I find both schools attract a quite similar student body when just considering A&S and engineering - perhaps more social, outgoing types than other highly selective universities as well as those more into sports and have propensity to have strong affinities to their institutions and school spirit. I think this is a very positive attribute that separates Northwestern and Duke from schools like UChicago, Cornell, and JHU, for example. Northwestern does have more strengths in āspecialtyā schools though like journalism and the arts. But Duke also encourages and enables you to take any course you desire regardless of the school you are enrolled in unless itās a graduate level course and you donāt meet the prereqs.</p>
<p>I personally am not a fan of Northwesternās academic calendar, but perhaps others prefer it. Trimesters enable students to take more courses, but they also have a lot more exams and get out in mid-June. I was working in a lab fulltime for a full 6 weeks before a Northwestern student joined me; getting out in early April gave me more internship/job leverage actually and I earned more money over the summer. I realize Duke starts earlier than Northwestern (Northwestern is usually mid-Sept), but Iād rather get out early to get a headstart on the job hunt. Some may prefer the trimester system, though, but it seemed like my friends at Northwestern were always stressed with midterms coming up. Iām like āmidterms again?!ā Academically, I certainly see them as peers, but I found Duke a bit more laid back and collaborative due to the academic calendar and timing of things, so topics donāt have to be unnecessarily crammed in a trimester. But this was just perception based on conversations with my Northwestern friends as I was never actually a college student there.</p>
<p>I think Evanston is a very nice college town, although I am not the biggest fan of Northwesternās campus layout. Chicago winter can also be brutally cold, although this winter was awesome (last winter not so muchā¦). While Durham isnāt a great city, itās more than sufficient and actually being a college town has its advantages like bars/restaurants catering to the college crowd. Canāt even get into a bar until youāre 21 in Evanston/Chicago, but in Durham you can get in everywhere (just technically canāt drink). This fact understandably leads to perhaps more on-campus/dorms/fraternity parties at Northwestern since you canāt have an event at a bar unless itās all seniors like you could at Duke. So, while Evanston may be the better college town you arguably canāt fully take advantage of it, and I found Duke to provide the better social atmosphere from my perspective (plus, I was bored of the Evanston restaurants that Iād gone to for a while, ha!).</p>
<p>I ended up not applying to Northwestern mostly because I wanted a new surrounding and area of the country. But I also found the trimester schedule, cold weather, and not very good sports (at the time) turnoffs. Duke was also stronger in my desired major (biomedical engineering) and the warm weather makes for a more fun-filled experience in my mind. I donāt think Northwestern being close to Chicago makes much of a difference at all in obtaining internships and jobs. Duke has very strong in roads in NYC, DC, Boston, San Fran, Atlanta, and Chicago. Itās a national brand and you wonāt find it hard to go where you want. I am certainly biased and am very happy with my decision. </p>
<p>I found Duke to be a great environment for both the intellectual types and the sports nuts, while providing growth in both the academic AND social arenas (and to get ahead in business in this country, you NEED to have good social skills). I would think Northwestern would do well in this regard to, so you simply need to write down whatās important to YOU and decide which school fits you better. When youāre talking about schools of this nature, you should simply go with your gut, I think. I think the academic and social differences that you perceive are non-issues as they are quite similar in reality. Good luck!</p>
<p>original poster is very lucky to get such a full, substantive post from bluedogā¦a Chicago native who chose Duke. He is always fair and never posts unless he has something to contribute to help.</p>
<p>Social skills matter a great deal in job and internship hunts, and Duke is a school that provides a spirited, young, adventuresome experience where fun has its place as part of the week. But never underestimate your classmates because they are all serious about their futures and have passions and talents of their own. Duke students are self starters and get their work accomplished very very well.</p>
<p>And bluedog closes with a fair statementā¦Northwestern and Duke are similar institutions with similar gifts to offer the student who puts in the work and effort. </p>
<p>The Duke Club in my sonās city is very active and is a year round source of pleasure and also assistance. To say nothing of the informal āDuke clubsā that get together in cities around the country to watch basketball togetherā¦they meet up in big venues in all major cities.</p>
<p>If you guys could help me out: Iām also considering Duke and NU.</p>
<p>I want to major in Theatre, but I have a few other factors that Iām weighing in. I want to double major in something, and right now Iām not sure what I want to double major in. I want time at school to explore, decide, and then finish all my requirements in four years. It might be a little more inflexible to do that at NU and much easier to do that at Duke. Iām also afraid I would get lost in the shuffle and be a little fish in a big pond, whereas in Dukeās program Iād be among a small group of Theatre majors, and therefore a little more comfortable. But Iām not sure if the depth of Dukeās theatre program would satisfy my intellectual curiosities in that fieldā¦</p>
<p>drewskiā¦you can do it all at either collegeā¦we donāt know enough about you to push Duke over Northwestern which has the nationally famous theater program. Duke has a huge budget for the arts but you can double major and change your mind either place. You have two great choices. Go where you feel like your social being will grow the mostā¦and feel most excited about opening days for freshmen. I hope you have been to a Blue Devil Day or on campus when Duke students were present.<br>
You can find the Chronicle online and someone here can post the link to the newspaper supplements where the arts reviews at Duke are concentratedā¦read up and do the same at Northwestern. You know NW has the bigger name in Theater but either college will be full of high achievers. Donāt make a decision based on worry about finding your place if you are truly picking between two schools of the caliber of Duke and NW. At either school your peers are going to be really unique and not really like each other. The only way to cope is to take off your hat to talent and to admire and support each of them. Believe me. If you do this, you will be supported in turn. Our son had a middling chair in the Duke Orchestra and the one time I attended three guys who were on his hall attended just to show support in something he worked hard on. Those three are all in top med schools now. It is just different than high school where being in the top 10% and getting roles in theater is for the few. Everyone at Duke is very very capableā¦so it is just a shift in your thinking. There will be no top 10% really anymoreā¦make a gut level decision and then show up and be happy and engaged.</p>
<p>im in the same boat.
itās either NU or Duke. and hereās my dilemma. I love the campus and warm weather at duke. i love the camraderie there (esp since i dont really think NU has a distinct community feel). the Duke campus is also more ācollege-likeā and it really builds a community atmosphere. and from what ive read here, it has a stronger alumni system. which is also nice. </p>
<p>BUTā¦ Nu offers a more comprehensive engineering program. </p>
<p>what if i get to duke and decide i dont want to do biomedical engineering (i dont even know if i like biomedical engineering right nowā¦)?</p>
<p>point is, NU has more options. and has chicago nearby. </p>
<p>oh, and duke gave me a lot less aid than NU. this is too difficultā¦</p>
but my Duke 09 son tells me that everyone who got into Duke NW and Wash U and came to Duke is soooooo Happy that they chose Duke. </p>