<p>Which one would you go to? I know that most people would say "DUKE!!! DUH!", but is there really a benefit to go to Duke if you live in California? The thing I'm most concerned about with Berkeley is the class sizes. However, does Duke have the same problem, especially if one goes into a popular major such as Biology?</p>
<p>Berkeley.</p>
<p>People say class sizes are difficult, but really, much of that is misconstrued. For one thing, <em>some</em> classes are, but not all--mostly the lower-division classes. And large-size classes are not as difficult or as bad as people make them out to be. Professor attention? You can get it; you just have to pursue it.</p>
<p>Plus, Berkeley is about half the price and offers the same quality education. For me, as a Cali resident, going to Duke would be stupid when Berkeley is in Cali. + Berkeley has lots of benefits: location, weather, academics, etc.</p>
<p>Berkeley has significantly stronger departments and faculty, and is more respected in the academic community. However, at the undergrad level, Duke probably does have the advantage due to its greater selectivity. You can't go wrong either place.</p>
<p>I really think it comes down to cost and fit.</p>
<p>For undergrad, I'd pick Duke.</p>
<p>"Duke probably does have the advantage due to its greater selectivity. You can't go wrong either place."</p>
<p>Admission rates mean nothing, overall (you could have fewer students applying who are extremely well-qualified, and so the admission rate seems higher, etc.). But I agree that you can't go wrong with either place.</p>
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Admission rates mean nothing, overall (you could have fewer students applying who are extremely well-qualified, and so the admission rate seems higher, etc.). But I agree that you can't go wrong with either place.
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<p>Uh, I don't think it's just a matter of admissions rates. It also has to do with standardized test scores, high school grades, and so forth.</p>
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Which one would you go to? I know that most people would say "DUKE!!! DUH!", but is there really a benefit to go to Duke if you live in California? The thing I'm most concerned about with Berkeley is the class sizes. However, does Duke have the same problem, especially if one goes into a popular major such as Biology?
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<p>On this particular question, I would probably have to agree with kyledavid80 and go for Berkeley, mostly for the price. Of course that presumes that you don't get any substantial aid from Duke - as sometimes you can actually get a better financial deal and end up paying * less * at a private school than you would at a public school.</p>
<p>"Uh, I don't think it's just a matter of admissions rates. It also has to do with standardized test scores, high school grades, and so forth."</p>
<p>Indeed. Unfortunately admission rates don't indicate those factors. For example:</p>
<p>A uni gets 20,000 applicants and chooses about 2,000--10% admission rate, and it was this low because only 2,000 had their standard of test scores, grades, etc. Next year, there are only 15,000 applicants, but there are fewer students applying who don't meet the standards (perhaps potential applicants didn't have the confidence, or something of that nature); instead, you have the same number of qualified applicants: 2,000 out of 15,000--13% admission rate. And this could happen on a greater scale. Thus, admission rates don't tell much.</p>
<p>I say this only because JDT86 said, "However, at the undergrad level, Duke probably does have the advantage due to its greater selectivity," which makes Duke seem better* simply because of its selectivity.</p>
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<li>I would defend the other university whether it were Berkeley or Harvard (even though Harvard is more selective, but hypothetically). =)</li>
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<p>What if we ignore the financial situation? Duke gives good fin-aid, and for Berkeley, I will get grants.</p>
<p>I applied to both. Since I am a California resident, Cal is very attractive. The general consensus would be that you can't go wrong with either. Both have great academic reps (although Berkeley has stronger name recognition), weather and sports teams. I wouldn't be so concerned about the class size. If you are a serious student, you should be able to excel regardless.</p>
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Indeed. Unfortunately admission rates don't indicate those factors. For example:</p>
<p>A uni gets 20,000 applicants and chooses about 2,000--10% admission rate, and it was this low because only 2,000 had their standard of test scores, grades, etc. Next year, there are only 15,000 applicants, but there are fewer students applying who don't meet the standards (perhaps potential applicants didn't have the confidence, or something of that nature); instead, you have the same number of qualified applicants: 2,000 out of 15,000--13% admission rate. And this could happen on a greater scale. Thus, admission rates don't tell much.</p>
<p>I say this only because JDT86 said, "However, at the undergrad level, Duke probably does have the advantage due to its greater selectivity," which makes Duke seem better* simply because of its selectivity.
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<p>Trust me, I understand how admissions rates work just fine. </p>
<p>But it seems to me that YOU are drawing the a connection to admissions rates, something that JDT86 never did. While I don't want to put words in his mouth, he never mentioned anything about 'admissions rates' when he asserted that Duke was more selective. I suspect that Duke probably is more selective, for reasons that are larger than just looking at admissions rates.</p>
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* I would defend the other university whether it were Berkeley or Harvard (even though Harvard is more selective, but hypothetically). =)
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<p>Wait, so now you are conceding that Harvard is indeed more selective than Berkeley is?</p>
<p>Berkeley!!Why?Best value!!!</p>
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I applied to both. Since I am a California resident, Cal is very attractive. The general consensus would be that you can't go wrong with either. Both have great academic reps (although Berkeley has stronger name recognition), weather and sports teams. I wouldn't be so concerned about the class size. If you are a serious student, you should be able to excel regardless.
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<p>Not that it matters a ton, but Duke bball alone makes it a great school for sports teams. As far as name recognition, Berkeley might have an edge, but not by enough that it is really a big deal. On the east coast Duke probably has more recognition--it's all relative. </p>
<p>The answer is your probably can't go wrong with either one. If you can, both schools. Go wherever you feel happiest/most comfortable etc.</p>
<p>sakky:</p>
<p>"Wait, so now you are conceding that Harvard is indeed more selective than Berkeley is?"</p>
<p>Since when was I conceding that Harvard wasn't? @_@</p>
<p>More importantly: are you naturally this combatant, sakky?</p>
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Since when was I conceding that Harvard wasn't? @_@
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<p>Shall I quote you your own post in your other thread when you were not willing to concede that the undergrad student quality at Berkeley was not as high as that at Harvard?</p>
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More importantly: are you naturally this combatant, sakky?
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<p>When I find posts of which I disagree, then yes. </p>
<p>But note, don't take it personally. As you can see on this thread, I agree with your central point that if I was the OP, I would probably take Berkeley over Duke. I think you would want a guy as 'combative' as me to be defending you. And I will, if I agree with you.</p>
<p>I picked Duke over Berkeley. Sorta wanted to get away from California. It's really up to you, visit both and decide what feels right. If you're a big basketball fan, Duke's a plus!</p>
<p>
Well, it depends on what you mean by "benefit." If you're asking whether a Duke education is inherently "better" than a Berkeley education (or vice versa), I would say definitely not. If one likes Duke better, however, then it may make a lot of sense to choose it over Berkeley. I chose Duke over UNC Chapel Hill because with scholarships and financial aid, Duke was quite a bit cheaper. Likewise, I knew a student who chose Princeton over Duke's AB Duke Scholarship and UNC because Princeton was cheaper. A lot of Duke students are from California, so apparently Berkeley isn't always the better choice. :p
Biology is one of the larger departments at Duke. Intro classes have about 80-90 people; more advanced classes typically have 12-30. Still, discussion sections make the classes a bit smaller, and most professors are very approachable.</p>
<p>The biology program at Duke is extremely strong and actually better than Berkeley's in some areas (like botany, BAA, oceanography, environmental science, and ecology). Resources like the Herbarium, Phytotron, Duke Forest, Lemur Center, Marine Lab, Duke Gardens, Nicholas School of the Environment, and well-equipped labs (including the AWESOME new French Science Center!!!) are great for undergrads. Duke students also have the resources and courses of UNC Chapel Hill to draw upon.</p>
<p>For class sizes:
<a href="http://www.siss.duke.edu/schedule/%5B/url%5D">http://www.siss.duke.edu/schedule/</a></p>
<p>I don't really like USNews overall, but i do like the way they determine "selective," with admissions rates being only 10% of it and the rest being sat scores and class rank. Duke comes in at #11 with 2 other schools and berkeley is at the next level at #14. So by this method, duke is ever so slightly more selective than berkeley.</p>
<p>Acceptance rate is a pretty bad indicator. California is the biggest state in the country, so naturally its premiere state school has a mass of applicants. Look at the actual student strength: Duke students are significantly stronger than Cal students.</p>
<p>I would say Duke just because its undergrad is stronger and it sends many more kids to top professional schools. But if you like Cali, you'll find that NC is pretty different. The weather is nice at both places.</p>