Whether Duke’s CS offering is an issue or not depends on the student. For many, it wouldn’t. However, for some more advanced students interested in certain specialties, whether their next step upon graduation is to go to grad school or industry in one of those areas, the lack of courses and research opportunties in those specialties could be an issue.
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Please check with a Duke CS prof on independent study opportunities. Especially given the latest news at Cornell.
Right, but it sounds like he got into Princeton from Duke CS, which would help the OP understand whether the extra specialization (and stress) at Cornell is necessary.
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He may not be pursuing one of these specialties at Priceton. Again, it depends on the student whether s/he is interested in such a specialty.
As badly as I feel for Phil Zukovsky and the others, Cornell suicide rate is on par with most other “rigorous” schools.
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I think @Fred2003 may be jumping to irresponsible conclusions and I agree with @dimkin that student deaths occur at a similar rate at most elite schools.
While the OP has not mentioned any mental illness, if he has a proclivity for unexpected death perhaps Cornell/Duke or any other rigorous school may not be for him.
That being said, the question was which school is better for CS and I think the answer is pretty clear.
It is worth noting that the market for recent CS graduates is pretty high, and some might say frothy. If a downturn in the job market occurs (and it will), won’t a degree from a major CS school (top ranking in both undergrad and PhD programs), and the Ivy League connections be more valuable than a CS degree from a rising non-Ivy that is middle ranked in undergraduate CS and not ranked for PhD programs?
Duke is a good school and has a good CS program. Did the OP work so hard in HS to just go to a good school?
Years from now, with a Cornell CS degree, he will be completely believable when he tells people he turned down Duke…in the alternative, with a Duke CS degree, if he tells people he turned down Cornell that may be less believable.
Honestly, both schools are great. And neither should be overly stressful for the right student.
I just think Cornell has that “extra” effort in CS and x-disciplinary applications of CS.
Just look at how they approach ML:
https://machinelearning.cis.cornell.edu/
Completely across college boundaries … That just makes sense.
And a TON of new money is coming:
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I lived through the last downturn and it really doesn’t work that way. Skills and network are what matters. And Duke isn’t exactly chopped liver anyway. I don’t know where you are, but in the US, pretty much no employer evaluates candidates by where in some grad CS ranking their program is (or even where in some undergrad CS ranking their program is).
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In the US, it’s completely believable. It may be difficult for you to believe, but pretty much no American would bat an eye if someone said they turned down Cornell for Duke even if they were a CS major.
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I got a friend who turned Harvard down for Duke
(but yeah, he was from Boston and wanted to get away)
I think that @superdomestique missed the point that the original poster has the stressful culture in Cornell as his biggest concern. Please refer to OP’s 3rd con under Cornell. I just pointed out that his concern might be valid. Two month, 2 unexpected death in CS major. They may not all connected stressful culture, but nothing rules it out yet. At least I haven’t heard anything related to student death in Duke in such short time and high frequency. Cornell may be ranked higher and have a more rigorous CS program, and I have no doubt that student graduated from such program have good job or grad school placement, only after they manage to survive the program - physically and mentally. Whether a student should survive or enjoy 4-year college, it is all up to him.
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I think you are putting way too much emphasis on the word “ivy”…It is just an athletic conference after all. If Ivy designation was the end-all-be-all, the ivies would be the top 8 ranked institutions in the US.
And, Duke is “middle ranked”?? When you consider how many colleges offer CS degrees in the US, to call a top-25 CS program “middle ranked” is a bit of an overreach IMO.
Wow…this comment is a head-scratcher.
OP: pick the school that makes you happy and comfortable. I don’t know about you, but my kids learn best when they are happy and relaxed…and when they have time outside of the classroom to pursue the things that truly interest them. Most kids who are bright enough to get into Duke and Cornell are motivated learners who will succeed no matter what their launching-place is.
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Right. By alumni accomplishments, Duke and Cornell are peers. Honestly, it’s pretty easy to find a bunch of metrics where Duke is ahead of Cornell, but I don’t want to be put in a situation where I am extolling Dukies.
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In terms of hiring, Cornell is considered a Top Tier school, Duke is Second Tier. You may be able to negotiate a slightly higher starting salary (maybe $10K) with a Cornell degree. But your salary 5 years into your career will only depend on your job performance, and the school you attended will not have any influence whatsoever. I wouldn’t pick one school over the other based on job prospects or salary. Also, given that you prefer to learn on your own, curriculum differences is not that important either. So I would decide based on which school has better student life.
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This is only true provided that OP’s career path isn’t altered by the choice of the school. If OP is interested in a certain specialty that leads to higher paying jobs, but the school can’t provide or prepare its students as well in that specialty, it may very well permanently affect the outcome.
“Learning on your own” isn’t a good substitute for more advanced knowledge in some of the specialties. BTW, the differences aren’t generally in the curricula (all reasonable CS programs require courses in data structure, systems, algorithms, discrete math, etc). They’re in the electives that a student may take to specialize in certain CS subfield(s).
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You got evidence for this claim?
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Courses that can also be accessed via a masters program.
If College A has specific classes in a subfield, would it be detrimental to go to College B for undergrad and then do a masters in at a school strong in that subfield rather than go to College A for undergrad?
IMO, OP should go to Duke. Reading this thread, it is clear that he likes Duke better. I don’t buy this talk of Cornell being that much better than Duke educationally. Some people seem too hung up on rankings and the Ivy label. I doubt the outcomes are different. These are peer schools.
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Yes, the student can theorectically do a masters in a specialty to compensate. However, that’s likely not optimal, or even feasible, for some students due to the cost of an unfunded masters program or the barriers of acceptance to a funded masters program in that specialty. A funded PhD program is another possibility but acceptance to certain red-hot specialties in a top program is even more competitive than anything we’ve seen in undergraduate admissions. Without research experience and coursework in that specialty, it’s practically impossible.
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I don’t know if this helps, OP, but at Duke you can easily transfer into ECE in Pratt and do ECE/CS if you so choose.
I haven’t ever heard that Duke grads have trouble getting internships or jobs, but look on their website for outcomes. Look at Duke ML and AI. Contact the professors, as I suggested.
And, I’m going out on a limb here, but yes, Duke students in all areas, even engineering, are happier/less stressed than at Cornell. Even engineering kids manage unrelated double majors. It’s a collaborative place. If you have trouble with anxiety, Duke should be your choice.
Enjoy this 4 yrs of your life. It’s crazy to say that a top Duke CS/Econ, whatever, major will not get a good job!
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