3 yr old data, so scale everything up.
yep if u choose 2018 u get avg salary is 113k and median as 110k which is where caltech is on the graph you sent
ok so
you have to scale ALL of them up, not just CMU… CS salary inflation
yea what im saying is the graph u sent is wrong since the figures for cmu for 2018 is 113k, now its like 122k whilst its showing 90k on the graph
The report @dimkin attached was published in Jan 2018 and was based on data from 2013-16. You need to scale up the numbers from that graph as @dimkin suggested in order to compare with CMU’s published data.
It’s a good list but I could see some correlation issues with the CS degree/Linkedin formula. It’s probably correlated better for some schools but not others. I know many people in IT where degree and job title don’t match…me included. Some of the best developers I worked with were Philosophy majors. MIT is odd. Not a high correlation in employment if I’m reading it correctly.
FWIW, the school’s COA for the two schools that I’m familiar with because of my kids is incorrect.
My son is going to UM for CS in Engineering and is not a partier and I have a daughter at UT-Austin which is very similar to UM and similar to him, and it is very possible to make a school small and suit yourself, you can’t make a small school bigger though if that’s what is needed. Fraternity life at UM is take it or leave it. Dorms are randomly assigned so there will be Greeks in every dorm and plenty of non-Greeks. Like anywhere, you find your own. That said, not all Greek life are partiers and if you research about Duke they had issues this year that caused their covid lockdown because of their Greek life not abiding by the rules and then disenfranchising from the University based on what their Nationals told them to do. I don’t know anything about GaT greek life but it is a grind.
That said, you might have an easier time eliminating schools and seeing what’s the last one standing as opposed to picking the best out of the 4. Brown to me would be the first one to go. For a CS kid, there is nothing about Brown that screams CS. I have been through this with 4 kids and not once did Brown show up on any list as having a strong CS program. Duke’s CS is in their Liberal Arts school, so for some that can be a negative, so he should consider if that is a negative or not. At the last minute my son applied to Duke but wasn’t sure he would go there if accepted based on the Liberal Arts factor, their overall curriculum and as you mentioned their not being as strong in Engineering/CS as the others he applied. He was rejected so that choice was easily taken away from him. His first choice was actually Cornell where he was deferred ED then rejected. The schools he is waitlisted at GaT he is not pursuing his waitlist spot after committing and learning about UM, UNC not going to pursue further if they contact him, Northwestern which recently sent a confirm your spot for the second time which he did not (their Engineering and CS are way behind UM) and any others he didn’t accept from the get go once he had Michigan. Michigan v GaT are very similar as far as strength of program with GT slightly ranked higher. When my son was considering Purdue which is known as a tech school like GT just not as strong, I was concerned about overall opportunities at the school because it was so techy, clubs not in tech, general well roundedness, etc. which is the same thing I would have worried about at GT. After getting into Michigan, Purdue flew off the table. Engineering being on North was a concern of his, but ultimately he realized it’s not a big deal, no different than driving to high school, riding a bus to high school, or taking a bus to a job. Also, door to door service in the cold will be nicer than walking from the dorm to those classes (if living on Central campus).
There are some negatives I’m dealing with about UM that my UT and Cornell ones don’t have. Higher cost once your kid attains 54 credit hours, no registration benefit if any of those are AP credits, possible difficulty in getting CS classes, which is a problem everywhere but ultimately doesn’t cause problems with graduating any of these schools so doesn’t over concern me but the options are limitless.
Regardless of where he chooses, he will have great options. One thing about UM we have been bombarded with stuff since he accepted. My son said there is a very active discord and patio. Not sure if it’s only for committed students but maybe your son should check it out to gain more info. Those are typically the engineering kids.
Also, the housing app is due by May 5 ad they say you don’t get it for a week after you commit. I have no idea what that means for students that don’t commit until May 1 because they claim at that point it’s first come first serve which isn’t fair imo. But feel free to ask me any questions and you should definitely reach out to Duke and GaT parents with kids going into the same fields. And he should talk to current students as well. I can’t remember offhand if my son said there are some in those groups or not.
You can pretty much go to any school and get a job at the FAANG companies. Also, not everyone wants to work at one - my kid took took a job at a startup over an offer at one o the FAANGs. There are a lot of negatives for some people in that environment. You are on a team for a year and if it’s not a team you want or they don’t treat you well, you’re stuck for a year before you can transfer to another at most of these places. Burnout is huge, etc. They are not for everyone.
We know someone graduating from UC-Davis going to work at Amazon after she graduates making 135k. Clearly UC-Davis is not at the top of the heap nor is it UM or GT or Stanford, UCB, etc.
Thank you so much for the thorough UMich assessment and the other info on your kids’ college choices. It’s so helpful to hear about other’s decision processes!
I think that my son has ruled out Brown. Honestly, it wasn’t initially on our radar for CS either. He applied towards the end of the process to (possibly) have a great option, close by, in case the Covid stuff really hit the fan. We are in an area where the only “great” engineering program close by is MIT. Most of our close-by options are regional tech schools. (He also got into Northeastern honors in that same vein)
As far as Michigan, he was all on board with “Go Blue” until we visited. To be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Michigan at all. This was merely a personal assessment of fit. My son just didn’t feel at home there. I’m not sure if it was the size or just a gut feel. Anyway, he’s initial excitement at being admitted to UMich has worn off a bit.
We visited GT pre-covid and boy I wish I had paid more rapt attention (now that I know it was our only on-campus visit) He quite liked the campus and the programs, but he just felt more at “home” at Duke.
At this point I think it’s a decision between GT’s “better program” and Duke’s “better overall fit”.
We are also firm believers of making your own opportunities, wherever you are. For context, we come from a small average town that has never sent kids to Duke, Brown, Mich, or GT. My older child was in the same boat with selections of Georgetown, Harvard, Notre Dame, UVA, etc. I guess I’m saying that the kids who achieve, will do so wherever they are.
Another example, my son (at his very small, not-stem focused high school) is on a small FIRST robotics team. He loves it and has become an active participant and leader who has had multiple opportunities to stand out. In contrast, just a few towns over is a massive robotics team, one of the top ranked (if not the top ranked) in our state. My son wouldn’t trade his spot on his small team for a spot on that nationally recognized team for anything. The nationally ranked team is huge with most kids not even touching the actual robot until they are seniors. My son, on the other hand, has been an active contributor since 7th grade with his hands all over the team robot! Sometimes smaller programs provide opportunities to stand out and shine…we have seen it first hand.
Another consideration…and something we are trying to keep in perspective…all four programs are in the top 25 for CS in the country. He will have opportunity no matter where he lands.
As a parent, I am also looking at some of the smaller “annoyances” (for lack of a better word). I don’t love that GT gives better housing preferences to kids that commit earlier. I don’t like the pressure it puts on kids to choose their new home quickly. I much prefer the colleges who adopt an attitude of “take your time and make the right choice.” To me, it shows respect for the difficult choices that kids must make, often with very little time to do so. These kids were patient while colleges made their decisions over many months. I see it as a sign of how these colleges may treat their kids in the future. Michigan seems have to have a similar thing where kids who decide close to the deadline may not get their housing application in by the May 5th deadline as alluded to above.
In closing, I will add that this process is infinitely harder without accepted student days. My older child was very very affected by her accepted student day experiences. She got to sit in on mock classes and meet professors. None of the schools my son is looking at offer these two things. It’s primarily “talking heads”, administrators, and the occasional student panel. I wish the schools would provide sample classes and better detailed facility tours as part of their virtual offerings. It takes a lot of time to find these things yourself and to reach out to current students and parents on your own. I guess that’s another reason I appreciate the schools that give kids the time, patience, and room to decide.
Any thanks again to all who have provided invaluable insight! Keep it coming 
To me when deciding on colleges, finances and fit have always been the guiding factor, fit being the most important if you can afford the finances. College is a really special time and you only get to go once. I think opportunities will be the same from all three schools, particularly in CS which is very employable.
Going to GeorgiaTech over Duke because of a ranking doesn’t make any sense to me. Both have excellent programs. Good luck to your son wherever he lands.
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I have been bred with a dislike of Dook but all of your posts say Duke should be the choice for your DS, you have made very compelling arguments why it wins DS’s checklist plus it feels right to him. Why keep questioning it?
The cons for GT and UM specific to your son are very large ones to me. Size of student body and size of classes, stress culture, dorms, food, social scene, what else is there that impacts your daily life at college? The better reputation isn’t going to help get him through freshman college shock and finding his people, or learning to adjust to big anonymous classes. Does the sun shine where you live? Thinking you prefer cool weather, and then experiencing MI winter are not quite the same and could only exacerbate any of the many cons above.
$8k/yr is a bargain for the Duke experience over GT, no way would MI seem like a good idea for another $10/yr on top of that. Stop looking for regrets, commit and move forward!
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When one reads through your post I think it’s easy to see where his fit truly is and that’s with Duke. You’ll drive yourself crazy trying to find reasons why GT or UM should be his choices but if he didn’t feel “IT” at Michigan but felt at home at Duke then it sounds like an easy choice.
Until recently I had wondered what my son was going to do about Northwestern which overall is clearly higher ranked than UM. But when he told me he thought he missed the deadline to reconfirm the waitlist and said “oh well” (he didn’t it’s May 3) I knew for sure the deal was done with Michigan. I also knew when he was rejected at Cornell and within an hour said pay the UM deposit that he had done his research and was sold. I had thought he was still heavily leaning towards UVA at that point because we had a great visit, he loved the school and was ok with their engineering program even though it wasn’t as top as UM but as we all know sometimes we as parents are the last to know!
Your son will thrive and find his place. I actually have a friend’s son who was on a winning robotics team in hs for years and completed in nationals or internationals whatever they call it who goes to Duke. I’m sure they will find one another!
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You all are so kind and I really, really appreciate the ability to “talk” everything out.
Why I think we keep questioning things:
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Because of stupid covid, we aren’t entirely confident in our assessment of fit. We toured Michigan and Duke on our own, just walking around campus. No buildings were open. We didn’t really have any meaningful interactions with students or professors. We had one day to see each place so it was a bit of a “mad dash” trying to get a feel for the layout, all the engineering buildings, dorms, cafe, etc. I guess I’d say it felt a bit like sightseeing rather than an accepted student tour. And, GT was before covid in the summer of 2019…and that was simply a general campus tour. Again, there was no real interactions with other students other than the tour guide, plus no look at labs, dorms, cafe. etc. All of our tours left us feeling like we were missing the real critical components needed to assess true fit…in depth and meaningful interactions with current students and professors, a tour of the dorms and living areas, eating in the cafeteria, those types of things.
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After a year plus of digging into CC and Reddit A2C (where so much emphasis is placed on rank) it feels “wrong” to turn down these very highly ranked engineering programs. Knowing that most people would choose Mich or GT over Duke for CS / ECE makes us wonder if we’re missing something obvious.
Those are the two major factors contributing to our uncertainty.
Editing to add one more thing: because he’s always been a true engineer / tech kid, we always envisioned him at a tech and engineering heavy school. This whole Duke thing sort of took us off guard, if that makes any sense. In the beginning of this process he had MIT, GT, and Mich squarely in his sights. Duke feels like a change of course and it’s got me a bit off kilter. 
I wouldn’t worry about the housing preferences at GT for early deposits. The housing is all about the same. That said, it sounds like the decision is already made. Your son’s heart is at Duke. Send the deposit.
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Michigan housing isn’t performed on a “first come first served” basis.
My D18 was admitted EA in December 2017, submitted her acceptance in late March 2018, and submitted her housing app by mid-April 2018. She received her housing placement in early August 2018 (late). Michigan doesn’t begin the housing placement process until after the SIR deadline. So, getting your housing app in early doesn’t do anything for “you.”
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I think the whole ranking thing has gotten out of hand! Georgia Tech has industry prestige and Duke has “cocktail party” prestige. Who is to say which will serve you better throughout your life ( my guess is the cocktail party prestige 
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Don’t worry about turning down a higher ranking school. It will make no difference in your child’s education and job search.
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That’s not what she’s referring to with the housing. You don’t get the housing application until a week after you commit (per housing). Housing begins to assign dorms beginning on May 5 (even if they don’t notify students until summer they start the process) this year, any housing turned in after May 5 will be first come first serve. Obviously, not all housing will be matched then, but the sooner it’s turned it the better, especially if from their own emails sent out they’re implying that you won’t get the housing email until May 8 at the earliest, which is sort of ridiculous. But maybe they’ll be able to speed it up for the May 1 commits.