Duke vs Georgia Tech vs Michigan vs Brown (CS / ECE)

College Search & Selection
41

Seems like you got a pretty good feel for the scenes even from your covid visits.

Large state schools are completely different animals from mid size privates. Your comment about wishing they cared about the student having time to make a decision reads private school ideals.

At large publics students often have to put much more effort into making schedules and securing spots in classes, getting advising time, let alone good advising time, navigating housing, recruiting, etc. Many large publics will be much slower to move lower level classes back in person. Most have almost no orientation activities. Your GT and MI cons lists should be much longer.

I agree with the others who aren’t seeing a huge disparity in rank, or even any depending on how you look at it. I disagree that most people would choose one of them, they are more compelling choices when in state and they are significantly less expensive than a Duke or Brown, not the case here.

I did not appreciate the value of a real orientation program with opportunities to make some however-long friends at the start of school near enough, especially for the non greek. I can’t say it loud enough. Looks like Duke has one, not so much the others.

Deposit Duke, they’ll drop some friends in his lap day 1, and he will recognize some faces in his smaller in person classes that he actually wants to take and go on to rule the robotics world in the fancy new engineering building while pursuing both of his preferred majors and learning to cry at Duke-Carolina basketball games. Seriously.

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42

Not sure what you mean about lack of orientation program, but Georgia Tech has a week of welcome prior to the start of classes so freshman move into dorms a week early. This is it in addition to their orientation which this year is one day and virtual from most sessions (it was two pre-Covid) where they are introduced to Tech and register for classes.

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43

My Georgia Tech student was one of those who didn’t get to pick a dorm until later in the game. This was attributed mostly to indecision about a prospective roommate. The dorm of assignment was regarded as one of the worst on campus. It ended up being a wonderful experience and now, they are happily living in an on-campus apartment that is quite spacious and has many amenities. Choosing GT included saying no to some top schools with bigger names, but none with better programs for engineering or CS. This was not a financially-based decision because we are a full-pay family at every school. It was hard to do. But choosing GT has made all the difference.

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44

Yeah I am with you on this one although not as it relates to the schools here but with my daughter at UT. Between my husband and me and our 6 kids we’ve been to 5 different college orientations, all public except one and the best one by far was UT-Austin in person orientation which lasts for 2-3 days and while the kids are at events the parents are at parallel events on any topic under the sun. There were so many sessions we wanted to go to that my husband and I split up and still didn’t get to see all the ones we wanted.

Then when kids come in August they have more events for them. One of my daughter’s best friends is the one that was her roommate randomly paired up with her during orientation.

Her advising has been top notch and way better than my daughter at an Ivy. So I think with anything one can’t just assume because GT or UM are public and Duke isn’t that these things are better or worse there when no one knows. But bottom line here is that OP son seems most comfortable at Duke and for that reason alone that’s why he should go and stop looking for a reason to find not to as he isn’t going to find it. If he needs to talk to students then he should reach out to them and ask questions.

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45

Well the one thing I can add is to have zero worries about not having gone into any buildings at Duke. Their buildings are gorgeous - inside and out. I don’t think there’s a single dorm left that hasn’t been renovated - unless the entire dorm is brand new. My daughter’s freshman dorm with granite bathrooms and kitchens is just insanely nice. The Broadhead Center which is the main dining on West Campus is amazing. If you’re at all worried about amenities because you didn’t see the campus because of Covid- don’t spend another second worrying.

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46

My S21 also headed to Duke for engineering. He also competed on a young, small FIRST team with great success, esp. their rookie season. He’s involved in international human rights and global development oriented ECs as well.

So for him Duke offers collaborative, smaller engineering and he can get a minor in a social science alongside his engineering – something not as easy bigger STEM focused schools.

Duke’s campus, ECs, food, and yes - prestige - are other draws for him. Finally, he likes being around non-STEM kids and the lectures and cultural events that come with a more 360 school. And sports to boot!

Congrats to your S for so many great options!

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47

I have a bit of a unique perspective. I have 2 high-achieving kids - one in college, one starting - so I’ve done the visits and research. But I’m also a psychologist with 25 years experience working with hundreds of kids this age. I’ve seen so many great kids love, hate, graduate, or quit college. And I’ve learned that it’s impossible to predict – or control - how things will turn out.

Sometimes a poor roommate fit can make a freshman year miserable, while a great roommate or friend can make a kid love college. An unanticipated terrific teacher can make a student love their major, while a bad class can make them hate it. Not getting the grades they want can lead to real depression. A trauma can happen. A romantic rejection can leave them crying every day, unable to sleep or study. Any of these things can change the college experience.

I’ve also seen kids who had 100% solid goals, and these were shaken, precipitating an emotional crisis. One boy who had known all his life he wanted to be a physician (super talented, amazing experiences, got into the school of his dreams) was stunned and even traumatized in his first month of college by how cutthroat, competitive, and pressured it was, and developed anxiety to the point that he couldn’t eat or sleep. His dad flew to him, found him a therapist, facilitated meetings with advisors. He’s now married and highly successful in a totally different field.

Your child’s college experience will have some terrific aspects, and some problems - THAT YOU CAN’T ANTICIPATE. Dorm and social experiences will be very influential, in ways you can’t predict. (And for what it’s worth, I’ve met zero kids for whom something like renovated new dorms really made the difference.)

Ratings, brand, and job prospect stats are worth researching and discussing, but they’re not what matters most, because you have no idea how college will go, or what those stats will mean, for your particular child. Imho FAANG stats don’t matter, because you don’t know how college will shape his goals or where his opportunities will come from. FAANG companies aren’t for everyone – he might discover they’re not for him. Jobs often come from alumni networks, faculty connections, internships, campus experiences - and you can’t predict any of those. Also, his personality matters just as much – how does he cope with change and problems, is he perfectionistic or flexible, does he know how to organize himself when the load is heavy.

Since your son has four great options which can all lead to great opportunities, and you can’t foresee the outcome at any of them, here’s my advice for what it’s worth:

  1. Have him watch the admitted student webinars where he hears actual students talk about their experiences, and have him find students who have gone there to talk to. Not one, but several at each school he’s strongly considering.
  2. Then tell him to put that together with how he already feels about each school, and go with his gut. Not yours, but his.
  3. Sometime before he goes to college, make sure he knows these things:

a. Life doesn’t go as planned, and that’s ok. Sometimes people find that the school they thought was right for them isn’t – one third of college students transfer. It’s not ideal but it’s not a tragedy.
b. If he has any significant problems, he’s not the first person to have them, and there are always solutions. He will solve them best if he talks to parents, advisors, counselors, professors, as soon as possible. If he doesn’t get a helpful response, try someone else - soon. A physics professor recently said to me, “if my students would come to me when they start to slide, and not the night before the exam, I could help them.”
c. Don’t miss class! If you must, watch the lecture ASAP. In my experience this is absolutely linked to success; kids miss a class, then miss a 2nd class because they didn’t watch the lecture, start to feel behind, and this can snowball.
d. He will sometimes get grades that aren’t great. It doesn’t matter. What matters is learning, and persisting.
e. Connecting to friends is 100% as important as getting good grades. Friendship makes college enjoyable, brings meaning to your experience, and often leads to new pathways, perspectives, and opportunities.

Hope that helps.

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48

so like duke and gt are similar, if your son is into sports go to duke, if your son wants to do nerdy things, go to gt or umich because the research facilities and department at gt and umich is bigger than duke

49

We were in a similar situation with Cornell and GT last week - son will be majoring in ECE. He also got into Michigan & Northeastern, but we crossed them off the list earlier.

My DS sounds a lot like your son - full bore tinkerer, and loves technology. I’m a Cornell alum, and based on the location, great engineering program, and name-recognition, we basically chose Cornell for him. He said he’d be happy to go wherever we wanted him to go. After making that decision, I couldn’t sleep. Up every night at 3:30am, agonizing over whether we’d made the right decision or not. Luckily, thanks to the responses from some groups online, we decided that HE had to be the one to make the decision, and in order to do that, we had to visit both schools ASAP. Two days later we flew to GT and back in a single day, and Cornell the following weekend. I found students at both schools to speak with us through the parent facebook pages at both schools (an at GT they even took us into the ECE building and the library), which was INVALUABLE in evaluating the schools . While we were at Cornell, DS made the decision to attend GT. I have slept like a baby ever since.

I’ve always said that the best way to know if you’re making the right decision is to MAKE IT (even if that means putting a deposit down), and see how it sits with you(and your DS of course). If it’s the wrong decision, you’ll know, because you’ll keep trying to justify it to yourself, and going over and over the decision criteria in your head. If that’s the case, reverse your decision, even if it’s painful (losing a deposit, disappointing someone, etc.).

If you’d like any details of our trip to GT or reasons for choosing it, I’d be happy to share, but you’ve already gotten a ton of great info in posts above.

Oh - he also did get into U Michigan, but for us, it just seems to far away(we are in NJ), plus the extra $$. The direct, numerous non-stop flights to Atlanta combined with the MARTA train(only $2.50!) to easily get to campus from the airport almost makes up for it being a 12 hour car drive away.

Good luck with your decision!

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50

Yep I’d say CMU, Cornell, GT,UMich and UIUC are at the top for ECE and to decide between these depends more on location etc

51

Thank you very much for this post…great perspective! We are in the process of reaching out and talking to current students and we hope that will help clarify some of our perceptions.

Can you share some of the perspectives you got from the GT student? Stress? Workload? Housing? Competitive vs Collaborative? Anything helps! :joy:

(And I am looking forward to May 4 when I can go back to sleeping like a baby!)

52

Hi, I’m late to the game and it sounds like you’ve already decided against Brown, but I wanted to mention a couple of things for others who might be interested. My D is at Brown and had started out in CS, but dropped it after the first semester weeder course. 25-30 hours a week for this one class turned out to be a great thing because it helps you decide pretty quickly whether you love it or not. Also, contrary to common perceptions about grade inflation, the grading was tough. (My kid had a very strong background in CS and is a very strong student, so I trust her comment about tough grading). I think Brown’s reputation for grade inflation comes from the fact that you can choose to take any class you want, even all your classes, pass/fail. Judicious use of that can help you avoid a bad grade in a known weeder class, thereby protecting a higher GPA, but IMO it doesn’t look good to have too many P/F on your transcript. Anyway, when she thought she’d be a CS major, she let me know that their CS department is top notch for their computer graphics group, and that Brown’s CS kids all get heavily recruited by Pixar as well as by FAANG. She also said that the CS kids work hard every semester, and there is plenty of stress to go around, but that Brown’s atmosphere of collaboration and support really helps. What also really helps is taking classes you love, and being able to completely immerse yourself into your major, and not having to take core requirements (eg: a CS major doesn’t have to take a foreign language), although you will definitely have requirements related to your major (eg: CS majors must take math).

She also said they have an awesome maker space, and that she and her friends have used that space extensively for various projects that they’ve worked on. According to her some kids are designing and building some really neat things, and it’s interesting to see the what they come up with. I know maker spaces are kind of an in thing now and lots of schools have them, which is terrific because these kids are making real things and are learning so much. Brown also has an EC where you learn to market your product.

OK, sorry for the sidetrack, but I didn’t want kids to think that Brown CS is a breeze, because they’d be sorely misled and disappointed if they thought that. OP, good luck to your son in making his decision. I don’t think he can go wrong!

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53

I sent you a PM!

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Thank you putting some real life context around the Brown experience! Your child’s experience is so different than what I would have expected (which is a great reminder that I need to dig deeper than rumored stereotype!)

Thanks again!

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Finally, where did he join?

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Just curious—which class is considered the first semester CS weeder course? I know that Brown has several options for first semester.

Thanks!

57

I realize the post is old and OP’s DS has made the decision but I wanted to weigh-in with my DS experience at GT. Not discounting anyone else’s experience…

He has only been there a semester so certainly things will change and he might adjust his opinion.

  • He has not found it so hard. Admittedly he is a good student, but he has not been challenged. I think a large part of this is due to their policy in Math of not testing to see where you are and putting you in a challenging class. He was a decent math competition kid (not USAMO level but AIME multiple times) and GT is not very good at ensuring challenge to say the least.

  • He has been stressed but not due to GT. Grade inflation is rampant at GT, so it puts extreme pressure to get an A and with finals being heavily weighted there is stress…

  • He actually likes the dorm he is in, loves the guys on hall, and thinks food could be better but it is fine.

  • He loves the campus and finds plenty of activities to do.

  • GT Counselling is quite poor. Perhaps this is the downside of a large public uni vs a private.

  • Getting the class you want is tough and seems to be harder than it should be, but so far not impossible.

  • He has liked his professors so far.

  • Not overly impressed with the admin side of GT. Tough to get info and when you get a response it rarely addresses the issue fully.

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61

Hi everyone! OP here! I figured I would pop back on with an update to this thread now that my son has his first college semester under his belt.

He chose Duke and he LOVES it. He’s made great friends, loves the ECE/CS program, and knows without a doubt that he made the right choice. A few highlights:

  1. We appealed his aid and the Duke Financial Aid Office was a pleasure to deal with. They were flexible, kind, and accommodating. After the appeal, our price was the same as Georgia Tech.

  2. The professors at Duke have been “phenomenal” according to my son. He really liked each and every professor this semester on both a personal and academic level.

  3. The school spirit and energy at Duke is unparalleled. The orientation week had carnivals, awesome activities, and fireworks. Duke knows how to welcome its students.

  4. According to my son and his friends, the food at Duke is awesome.

  5. As a parent, I can say that every person I’ve dealt with at Duke has been kind and helpful. They also have a robust parents Facebook group that is active and helpful. We’ve made a number of parent friends.

  6. Duke family weekend in October was quite the affair. So many activities and just an all-around good time. We constantly say that Duke knows how to welcome new families into their fold.

  7. Duke is switching to a residential housing system next year so that will be a change going forward.

  8. My son has joined a number of clubs and has a rich and fulfilling life in Durham. He has had plenty of time for academics, social activity, and clubs. He says it’s a nicely balanced college experience.

There are honestly so many positives it would be difficult to detail them all! My son can’t wait to dive back in for semester 2.

Any questions please feel free to ask!!

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This is so helpful! Did he apply for ECE/CS major with initial submission? This is what my son would like to do though I think he only indicated CS in his application. How is the advising given double major, course requirements, selection, etc. TIA!