<p>My S got accepted to Duke Platt's computer science program and UC Berkeley's electrical engineering and computer science (EECS) program in COE. He is debating which one to go. He is interested in computer science and engineering as well as economics. </p>
<p>His reasoning is that academically Berkeley has a strong EECS program. However, it is well known that the program is really cutthroat, meaning students put too much time in study and not have times for other intellectual pursuit. He is particularly worried about huge class sizes in the lower level classes (heard several hundred students in a big lecture halls). Berkeley's grade deflation practice also makes him a little unease since he wants to go to graduate school, and does not want to have a lower GPA to disadvantage himself in applying to top notch graduate schools (either engineering or MBAs).</p>
<p>Duke is a smaller private school with much smaller class sizes. Since he is Asian, he wants to go to a place that has more diversified student body. Duke has a strong pull for him because of that.</p>
<p>Both schools have strong economics programs. Berkeley has much stronger EECS program. But he is more into smaller class size and undergraduate research. Could any of you answer the questions about Duke's CS program and the student body corporation based on your experiences at Duke?</p>
<p>Since he is OOS for Berkeley, the cost for Duke is slightly more than Berkeley.</p>
<p>I’m assuming your son is intending to major in computer engineering if he got accepted to Pratt. Computer science is in Trinity. Duke offers a great environment in that discipline and all the top companies recruit from Duke. In fact, despite Berkeley being in the Bay Area, Duke still ranked higher at “fueling” Silicon Valley (#5 in the nation, see above). Duke students go into tech startups and the giants in droves and Duke really fosters a very big entrepreneural spirit, having competitions and giving plenty of research opportunities to students. I can almost guarantee that Duke CE undergrads conduct research with faculty at a larger participation rate than they do at Berkeley (with Berkeley being so much larger and more grad student focused; 90% of Pratt undergrads are involved in research by the time they graduate). </p>
<p>Faculty, facilities, and students are all top notch in a tight knit rewarding community at Duke, so there should be no worries there. Duke regularly performs among the best in the world in world programming competitions and has events on campus like the recent "hackathon for good. " Clearly, Berkeley is well known in the discipline and would also be an excellent choice. However, I don’t think you’ll be sacrificing much by going to Duke either. They will offer different experiences. Admittedly, I’m biased… People I know have known in the major have gone on to achieve great things and Duke served as the springboard. Duke likely will offer a more intimate and diverse experience and probably a broader and more open curriculum too. Both great choices though and can’t go wrong either way. Must be proud - Good luck!</p>
<p>The only schools that can rival Berkeley for EECS are MIT and Stanford. Berkeley will blow Duke out of the water for EECS. This isn’t even a contest. </p>
<p>Riversong123: participating in research for undergraduate EECS students at Berkeley would not be a problem. In fact, each and every EECS & CS student is highly encourage to do it, and everyone in those majors are involved in some kind of research within the department, many of them are even paid, as a number of research being done at the department and the university are funded by private firms. </p>
<p>Let your son visit the department. He will be surprised a number of students involved in research (which mostly are high-profile projects) are already earning. That said, I would be surprised if Duke’s equivalent department doesn’t have any research projects going on, though I would be very surprised if the quality of research projects done there would be as high-profile and as well-funded as in those in UC Berkeley. Indeed Duke is a very good school. But when it comes to engineering, and specially EECS, Berkeley is in a different league. There’s a reason why the EECS graduates of UC Berkeley are amongst the highest paid in the entire nation, and the program ranks number 1 in terms of ROI. <a href=“http://www.payscale.com/college-roi/full-list/sort-by/AnnualRoi/by-state/California/by-major/Computer%20Science”>http://www.payscale.com/college-roi/full-list/sort-by/AnnualRoi/by-state/California/by-major/Computer%20Science</a> </p>
<p>^The above is absolute hogwash. 90% of Pratt students participate in undergraduate research and Duke is one of the best funded research universities in the country. Graduate and department rankings are of importance to PhD students and not undergraduates. At the undergraduate level, it is important that you surround yourself with the smartest peers, have access to faculty to conduct research, and have a wide array of career opportunities post graduation (business and engineering).</p>
<p>I wonder if the University of California System’s recent, serious financial concerns (to illustrate, in-state tuition has dramatically increased during the last decade) might not reasonably be expected to adversely impact Berkeley in several other key areas? For example, I recently read that top faculty recruiting has decidedly suffered, as the cost-of-living increases, while comparative faculty compensation decreases.</p>
<p><a href=“UC Application - Message from the system”>UC Application - Message from the system;
This report – issued by the University of California – substantiates this significant problem. On its first page, it emphasizes:
“Compensation for many UC employees is significantly below market. One result of years of declining and inadequate state support is that faculty and staff salaries continue to lag significantly behind market. With the exception of contractual obligations to union-represented employees, salary increases were either eliminated or sharply curtailed from fiscal year 2008-09 through 2010-11. In addition, furloughs for UC faculty and staff in 2009-10 translated to salary cuts that ranged from 4 percent to 10 percent. A 2009 total compensation study showed that cash compensation for many UC employee groups remained lower than comparable positions at competing institutions, significantly so in many cases.”</p>
<p>Were I faced with two excellent options (Berkeley and Duke) I would attempt to look years and decades ahead – after all, this year’s freshmen may well work for until 2065 and live until 2085 – and I would be very concerned by both the immediately and the enduring Implications of inadequate salaries for Berkeley’s faculty and senior staff.</p>
<p>I’d definitely go with Duke. There is a similar discussion on quora (actually its almost identical). You should look it up. It will prove to be very informative (just fyi most of the Berkeley grads on quora said that Duke was the better choice). Also, don’t let RML’s hyperbole mislead you. We’re all very passionate about our respective schools so take everything we say with a pinch of salt. </p>
<p>^ Duke had more KPCB fellows than Berkeley this year. The KPCB engineering fellowship is arguably the most prestigious honor that a budding software engineer can receive (the opportunity to work for companies funded by the best VC firm in the nation). It’s a great measure of a program’s quality. </p>
<p>Another thing to consider & put into perspective is the endowments. Berkeley has somewhere in the neighborhood of a $3.3B endowment, while Duke has about $6B in their PRIMARY endowment and $3B in the Duke Endowment (($9B total). When you consider Berkeley has 36K students versus 14K students at Duke you start to see just how much $$ Duke has. That’s where you separate the men from the boys, you can’t not factor that into the resources & strengths of a college.</p>
<p>That’s a little bit apples and oranges. Berkeley also has the full faith and credit of the State of California at its disposal, and while that’s not what it once was, it does provide significant annual funding plus access to low cost capital for construction projects. </p>
<p>Even after significant cuts, Berkeley gets about $250 million per year in state funding, which is the opex equivalent of having about $5 billion of additional endowment. But please go on with the fact-free snark; it’s perversely entertaining. </p>
People I know have known in the major have gone on to achieve great things and Duke served as the springboard. Duke likely will offer a more intimate and diverse experience and probably a broader and more open curriculum too. Both great choices though and can’t go wrong either way. Must be proud - Good luck!</p>