What are your thoughts on these schools? Most threads on this topic are old. Let’s discuss the following.
Academics(Rigor, workload, learning experience) especially Econ at Duke/Kenan-Flagler
Social Life (student body, sports/clubs)
Prestige
Most notable majors/subjects (what is the school known for academically)
Price (is Duke worth it?)
Whether or not Duke is “worth it” depends on your family’s financial situation and on how much aid you will be receiving from the university.
Duke is in a different league academically but you will still get an above average education at UNC-CH. There is no real comparison when it comes to prestige. Social life is probably fairly similar and both schools have good sports teams (although I wouldn’t worry too much about that sort of thing).
NerdyChica, you are seriously downgrading UNC. To say that they are “in a different league” or that there is “no real comparison” is a major overstatement. Duke and UNC are peers, both academically and reputationally, with Duke have the edge in both, but not by much. That is not a knock on Duke, which compares nicely to the likes of Brown, Cornell, Northwestern and Penn etc…, but more a testament to UNC’s excellence. Given the choice, and assuming CoA and fit are not a concern, I would recommend Duke as well, but like I said, the two are peers.
Look at the US News rankings: Duke is top 10; if it were officially an Ivy League school, it’d be below Harvard/Yale/Princeton, around the same as Columbia or Penn and ahead of Dartmouth, Brown and Cornell.
UNC is top 25 or 30: below Emory and around the level of Wake Forest. That’s good, but there’s a large difference (in my view) in terms of prestige.
I’d go with Duke but with the knowledge that you still need to give it your best effort, and a Duke diploma does not automatically result in a better outcome (grad school applications, jobs right out of school) than UNC. I wouldn’t want to turn down an opportunity like Duke, since it’s a better school, period, and you’d be surrounded by higher-caliber classmates and more resources.
HappyAlumnus, you are taking that ranking too literally. It does not translate into better academics or stronger reputation.
They are both excellent schools. If you family can comfortably afford Duke, I’d lean towards going there if you want to be an econ major (see below). If Duke would require loans, financial hardships etc. then go to UNC. No bad choices here.
A big factor is that IMO there is a substantive difference between studying economics and being in an undergrad business school. Economics is a liberal arts course of study and a b-school will give you a core curriculum in subjects such as accounting, finance, IT, management etc. and you will major in one of those disciplines. I’d look carefully at the coursework you would take as an economics major at Duke and a business major at UNC (I imagine it can be found online) and see if you prefer one path to the other.
Duke has a big advantage in academics, prestige, alumni network, diversity. In addition Duke has much more financial resources per student and is raising billions of dollars in a current capital campaign while state schools struggle with local legislators for education funding. Duke is one of this country’s most elite schools.
Both awesome schools.
If I were in-state, got into both, and money were a factor, then I’d go to UNC-CH - and I would be ecstatic. The in-state tuition for a school of UNC’s caliber is phenomenal.
If I were OOS, there is still a difference of $17k/year tuition between Duke and UNC. Doing the back of the napkin math…$68k over 4 years…probably would still choose UNC. That would be tough though. I might try to find that extra $68k somewhere to make Duke happen.
If cost were equalized, then Duke all the way.
I don’t live in NC so my kids would be looking at OOS tuition for UNC.
One other consideration is the student population. The majority of students at UNC are from North Carolina. I know that for my son, he wanted a school that was more diverse geographically (he also discounted schools that weren’t diverse racially). But that is not an issue of concern to all.
@Alexandre My intention was not to disparage UNC. It’s a fantastic school. Having said that, its mission is different from Duke’s mission. UNC was intended to be accessible. Duke has always aspired to be very selective.
If you use broad enough criteria, you could regard any university in the top 100 as being in the same “league” as Harvard. However, you have to be more discerning to make meaningful distinctions between top tier universities. Does UNC outperform Duke in any category? How many students would opt to attend UNC over Duke (if financial constraints were temporarily disregarded)?
A Toyota is a solid car and saying that it doesn’t compare favorably to a Maserati doesn’t detract from that fact in any way.
@ChicagoSportsFn Duke will probably be more affordable once financial aid is factored into the equation.
I have heard that UNC’s honors college is excellent and know of students (STEM interests) who have chosen in favor of UNC (when money was not an issue). And I also know that many people thought that these same students were crazy to make that choice because of Duke’s prestige. You really have to look at the program you’re considering, what matters to you, and what you’re planning to do at the end of 4 years.
Are any of you guys students at either school? Imut from current students could be beneficial.
"My intention was not to disparage UNC. It’s a fantastic school. "
How can UNC be fantastic and at the same time you say that they are, “in different leagues academically”, or that there is “no real comparison when it comes to prestige.”
“Having said that, its mission is different from Duke’s mission. UNC was intended to be accessible. Duke has always aspired to be very selective.”
Their mission is the same NerdyChica. I don’t agree when people say that public universities have a different mission. They do not. Private and public universities have the same mission; to provide the best education possible, period! Just because a university is not extremely selective does not make it any less worthy or reputable. Until the early 1990s, even universities like Columbia and Penn had acceptance rates that hovered around 40%. Until as recently as 2005, Chicago and Johns Hopkins had admit rates in the 45%-50% range. All those universities, including UNC, regardless of how selective they are, will only admit the very best students, and educate them at the highest level.
"If you use broad enough criteria, you could regard any university in the top 100 as being in the same “league” as Harvard. However, you have to be more discerning to make meaningful distinctions between top tier universities. Does UNC outperform Duke in any category? How many students would opt to attend UNC over Duke (if financial constraints were temporarily disregarded)?
A Toyota is a solid car and saying that it doesn’t compare favorably to a Maserati doesn’t detract from that fact in any way"
There is indeed a significant difference in quality and reputation between a university like Harvard, and a university that is barely considered among the top 100 (not based on flawed rankings mind you). But I am not sure the difference is the pronounced between two universities ranked within 20-25 spots of each other, no matter how “discerning” you are. Rankings simply aren’t that conclusive or accurate. Most of them use very flawed methodologies and rely almost entirely on inaccurate data. And I am not certain what you mean when you ask if UNC “outperforms” Duke in any category? Universities do not function that way. Just because people trying to sell magazines to high school kids claim that they have found some magical way of ranking universities does not make it so. The president of Stanford University said it best in a letter he wrote to the editor of the US News back in 1996:
“I am extremely skeptical that the quality of a university - any more than the quality of a magazine - can be measured statistically.”
Like you, I agree that most students would pick Duke over UNC if CoA were not a factor, but that does not make Duke vastly superior. Most students would choose Yale over Duke, or Harvard over Columbia. That does not make Yale and Harvard vastly superior to Duke or Columbia.
And I am not sure the car analogy works here, but if I were you compare Duke and UNC to cars, I would go with Range Rover vs Land Cruiser. 
Do yourself a favor NerdyChica and drop that misplaced sense of entitlement and elitism. It is most unbecoming and will not serve you well in the real world…or in life in general.
Most OOS students are not invited to the honors college, even if they exceed the criteria. UNC is definitely quite rigorous. Is it more rigorous than Duke? I do not know. UNC, being a state school, will accept some “lower” kids that would never get into Duke. That may make Duke feel more rigorous, but who knows. UNC is known for the sciences and they have a very good business school. Everybody can find their social niche at UNC. If you want Greek life, it is there. If you do not want Greek life, you never have to see it. Kids who do not party will tell you that UNC is not a party school. There are a lot of clubs to join, guest speakers to listen to, and plenty of activities to do on campus. Chapel Hill and Carrboro are very nice towns. As far as prestige, I think that the schools are peers, but most will tell you that Duke is slightly more prestigious. If money is a factor then I would choose UNC. If not, then go where you fit in better. UNC is a collaborative environment, not competitive. There is probably greater economic diversity at UNC and the school’s racial diversity is increasing. If you factor in transfer students, UNC is 75% IS and 25% OOS. Once you get used to not being from NC, it is actually quite easy to find kids from OOS.
@twogirls Thanks for the information. Do you know anything about grade inflation/deflation at these schools? I heard that Duke has grade inflation and most public schools are harder than privates. Is this true?
Below are a few statistics that might help with the comparison.
Admission Selectivity
Duke: 11.4% admitted, 91% in HS T10%, 1460 average SAT M+CR (sum of median-band midpoints)
UNC: 28.5% admitted, 78% in HS T10%, 1308 average SAT M+CR (sum of listed averages)
Source: USNWR
Average Class Sizes
Duke: 73% <20 students, 20.9% 20-49 students, 6.1% >= 50students
UNC: 39.2% <20 students, 45.8% 20-49 students, 15% >= 50students
Source: USNWR
Average Faculty Salaries
Duke: $182,898 full professors; $116,955 associate professors;$88,533 assistant professors
UNC: $143,901 full professors; $96,921 associate professors; $82,800 assistant professors
Source: Chronicle Data
(note that UNC-CH has proportionately more undergraduates, which may tend to drive down its relative averages)
Revenues per Full Time Equivalent Student (undergrad & graduate)
Duke: $6.49B total revenue and investment return* for 15408 FTE students = $421,375per student
UNC: $3.02B total “all revenues and other additions” for 26066 FTE students = $115,868 per student
Source: IPEDS
Spending on Instruction per Full Time Equivalent Student (undergrad & graduate)
Duke: $0.92B spent on 15408 FTE students = $59,670 per student
UNC: $0.74B spent on 26066 FTE students = $28,543 per student
Source: IPEDS
Spending on Research per Full Time Equivalent Student (undergrad & graduate)
Duke: $1.0B spent on 15408 FTE students = $65,421 per student
UNC: $0.9B spent on 26066 FTE students = $33,569 per student
Source: Washington Monthly (expenditures), IPEDS (FTE students)
4 Year Graduation Rate
Duke: 87%
UNC: 81%
Source: Kiplinger’s
Median Salary 10 Years After Graduation
Duke: $76,700
UNC: $50,400
Source: Kiplinger’s
Alumni-Earned PhDs, 2010-2014
Duke: 770 PhDs from ~1900 Bachelors degree recipients/year X 5 = ~80 per 1000 graduates
UNC: 876 PhDs from ~4600 Bachelors degree recipients/year X 5 = ~40 per 1000 graduates
Source: NSF/webcaspar (PhD totals), IPEDS (bachelor degrees conferred in 2013-14)
According to Washington Monthly 2015, Duke ranked 11th and UNC 40th among national universities for per capita PhD production.
It is not difficult to get involved in undergraduate research at UNC. Additionally, most classes are small (under 30) even for freshmen. There are lecture halls for the intro science classes that have about 200 kids, but these classes are flipped classrooms and are discussion based. UNC has no grade inflation and the students work hard for their grades.
I would also like to point out that one major factor that leads to Duke alumni having a higher median salary is due to the lack of an engineering school at UNC.
^ That’s not necessarily true. You’re speculating.
I’m not aware of any good data that would allow us to compare median salaries for Duke arts & science majors alone to UNC arts & science majors.
Georgetown University has no undergraduate engineering programs, yet has 10-year median alumni salary even higher than Duke’s. W&L has only very limited engineering programs, yet also has 10-year median alumni salary even higher than Duke’s. About 30 LACs with no engineering programs (or only very limited programs) have Kiplinger “salary yardstick” numbers higher than UNC’s.