<p>No the idea is not confirmed by the Oath an Law. The mention of God doesn’t make the BSA a religious organization.</p>
<p>Actually, it ties into the institutionally religious aspect of the BSA.</p>
<p>Scouts have a duty to God. Scouts are reverent. Scouts MUST be religious as part of the requirement of the BSA, thereby making it a religious organization on an institutional level – their statement “Scouting believes in some religion” is by definition making them a religious organization.</p>
<p>cf. the USA, where our Pledge of Allegiance includes the word “God” but it is expressly institutionally secular.</p>
<p>It’s cute how you think this is arguable.</p>
<p>Huh? Are you making this stuff up? Scout also have a duty to country. And to be morally straight. Being reverent is only one point of the Scout law. </p>
<p>Have you ever read the official charter? I suggest you do.</p>
<p>@Baelor Eh, I must have had my anti-gay senses heightened, what your post originally read like was that their belief gays were pedos/axe murderers was still a legitimate reason to keep them out of scouts – to be fair though I did note it was possible you were being tongue-in-cheek. </p>
<p>@BalconyBoy what does “morally straight” mean? Don’t hide behind cute words and phrases.</p>
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<p>I’m sorry, but this requirement always makes me chuckle. I know lots of scouts and have written more than a few letters for Eagle scout applications. When I ask the kids what this means, not one of them tells me that it means that they can’t be homosexual!</p>
<p>I think it is a shame that gay boys are kept out of the scouting program because of this requirement. Those boys could benefit from the advantages of scouting as much as any other boy. Surely, gay boys can be moral, just as heterosexual boys can be immoral. </p>
<p>But the scouts are a private organization and can discriminate as they please. This policy won’t change until society comes to the point of seeing homosexuality as a small and benign part of a person’s persona (like being left-handed). I suppose that the cessation of favored/cheap access to public lands could speed the process along.</p>
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<p>Morally upright. Nothing to do with sexuality, seriously.</p>
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<p>Oh, honey, now I just feel bad for you. I love official charters and declarations.</p>
<p>Article IX Section 1 is the Declaration of Religious Principle, which reaffirms that the BSA is a nonsectarian religious organization.</p>
<p>How would you like us to bury your coffin, so neatly nailed shut?</p>
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<p>If being “morally straight” has nothing to do with sexuality, but refers only to the requirement that boy scouts be morally upright, then on what does the BSA base its policy of excluding gay boys?</p>
<p>I got a chuckle out of Baelor’s failed axe-murderer comparison, since my physics lab partner senior year who was an Eagle Scout was–literally–an axe-murderer. Well, a hatchet-murderer, anyway.</p>
<p>No word on whether he was expelled from scouts.</p>
<p>Without changes, the BSA is losing its relevance among today’s youth. Add onto that parental fears of child abuse perpetrated by scout leaders (thankfully, the Boy Scouts are much more proactive in getting rid of problematic leaders and also seem to be better at keeping settlements out of the papers) and not much traction of the organization in immigrant communities, the drop in membership numbers is staggering.</p>
<p>From a July 31, 2010 NY Times article entitled “Boy Scouts Seek a Way to Rebuild Ranks”:</p>
<p>“The organization, long an icon of wholesomeness in a simpler America, has seen its membership plunge by 42 percent since its peak year of 1973, when there were 4.8 million scouts. In the last decade alone, membership has dropped by more than 16 percent, to 2.8 million.”</p>
<p>If it weren’t for the whole-hearted support of the LDS church, whose young men’s program is the scouting program, what would the membership numbers look like?</p>
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<p>I’m not comparing anything! Why do people leap to conclusions? The limit of my comparison is that people view gay sex as wrong, and view axe-murdering as wrong. That’s it. Again, repeat back the point of my post and then maybe I’ll accept that your comment has some validity.</p>
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<p>I’m not an apologist for the organization. As I said before, my best guess would be the Mormon presence within Scouting. And it certainly has nothing to do with sexuality.</p>
<p>Wrong honey! That is one part of the charter. It doesn’t define the charter.</p>
<p>The BSA feels that homosexuals are not morally straight. I doubt if it has anything to do with the Mormon influence.</p>
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<p>Duh. Now I question your ability to read documents at all. They are not going to discuss how the BSA requires Scouts to be religious in the part of the charter about how troop finances need to be managed.</p>
<p>It is appropriately listed under the “Policies” section. The fact that they do not mention this policy every other sentence has no bearing on the fact that it is an institutional policy. In other words, BSA, by including that policy, has established itself as a religious organization. Nowhere else is even important.</p>
<p>Back away, ■■■■■! Lest I get my spray bottle of water!</p>
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<p>OMG. SRSLY? The BSA feels that homosexuals are not morally straight BECAUSE of the primacy of the Mormon influence in Scouting.</p>
<p>Mormons are not the only religious group that uses the BSA program as their young men’s program–maybe it is because of one of the other religious groups. In Mormon doctrine, a non-sexually active homosexual is not committing a sin. So the BSA policy goes beyond Mormon beliefs.</p>
<p>Ellemenope, that is correct; in fact, many faiths do not condemn homosexuals who are not active.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I made the statement I did because at least in the West, a large number of Scouts are Mormon. Note that the BSA can not use public schools as sponsors for troops because of the religious policy, so now religious places of any kind are now even more desirable. There is often a discrepancy between what a religion officially holds as belief and what the people believe.</p>
<p>I would love to see BSA statistics on demographics of members; I cannot find anything. I would posit that Christians make up the largest group, and Mormons in my experience, however anecdotal, are the predominant subgroup therein.</p>
<p>My co-leader for Girl Scouts was gay. She was half of a gay couple who were moms to one of the girls in the troop. Our kids went on plenty of sleepovers with her (I could not always go, but as with all scout activities, there were other adults around), and I never gave it a second thought.</p>
<p>Better spray yourself with that bottle Baelor. Your statement regarding why the BSA thinks homosexuals are not morally straight is your opinion posed as fact when it is nothing more than your opinion and not fact.</p>
<p>I can read just fine, thank you. Did you read the rest of the charter? Have you ever talked to anyone in the BSA about it? Do you know the Methods and Aims of the BSA? I suggest you are the one who needs to learn how to read.</p>
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<p>It’s not. I even prefaced it consistently with the fact that it’s my opinion, it’s my impression, etc. Revision of reality is not my forte, however, so perhaps you would like to instruct me, so that I may understand why you post the things you do.</p>
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<p>I’m sorry, you must be under the impression that I was marginally involved or otherwise unaware of what is going on. Let me lay this out for you in a way that I hope you can grasp, given that I assume you are not in kindergarten:</p>
<p>1) The Charter is the Charter
2) It has several parts
3) One includes a statement that the BSA has a policy that requires its members to be religious and that the BSA institutionally supports religion in a non-sectarian fashion
4) By definition, it is therefore a religious organization</p>
<p>It may be easier for you to end your bout of psychosis if you point out exactly which factual statement is not consistent with your worldview. That way, we can address your problems and can all be on the same page.</p>
<p>Furthermore, nothing else is relevant. The Charter establishes religion in a codified manner. The only other statement, document, or opinion that is relevant is one that denies that explicitly. </p>
<p>So, please, show us where it is or stop talking. Neither option you’ll take, I’m sure, given your obvious incapability of supporting any of your points. Anticipating some pathetic comeback, note that I am the only one out of us who has bothered to post any evidence whatsoever.</p>
<p>No psychosis here. Article IX Section 1 is part of the Bylaws not the Charter. </p>
<p>The Charter does not establish religion as anything. I don’t even think the word religion appears in the Charter.</p>
<p>More than marginally involved? What does that mean? Are you a Den Leader?</p>
<p>It appears I am not the one with the understanding problem. I suggest you read the Aims and Methods and the Purpose. Oh and really read the Statement of Religious Principles.</p>
<p>“My co-leader for Girl Scouts was gay. She was half of a gay couple who were moms to one of the girls in the troop. Our kids went on plenty of sleepovers with her (I could not always go, but as with all scout activities, there were other adults around), and I never gave it a second thought.”</p>
<p>Girl scouts are more evolved on this subject than the boy scouts. I suspect because men are feared more as sexual predators than women. But, most people send their daughters to houses in which there is is a presumed heterosexual male residing without a second thought.</p>
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<p>Yes, you are. You are comparing gay sex to ax-murdering, and concluding that “people” view both as wrong.</p>
<p>Newsflash: Many, if not most, people do NOT view gay sex as “wrong”; while it is fair to say that EVERYONE, including most of those who perpetrate them, view ax murders as “wrong.”</p>