Earlham vs. Lake Forest vs. Howard vs. UMass Amherst

College Search & Selection
1

After I received all financial aid packages and admission decisions, the colleges I can afford are Earlham, Lake Forest, Howard, and UMass Amherst. Here are my financial stats for those colleges:

Howard: Received a full ride + $500 for books.
Earlham: My parents will pay $3,165 and I will take out $5,500 in loans.
Lake Forest: My parents will pay $6,061 and I will take out $5,500 in loans.
UMass Amherst: My parents will pay $9,192 and I will take out $5,500 in loans. (This is a big stretch and would definitely be a challenge for my family)

I will most likely be double majoring in economics and political science, though I was accepted into the school of business for Accounting at both UMass and Howard. I also want to participate in theater, community service, and study abroad. Another important factor is the strength of the school’s disability services.

I have only visited Earlham and UMass Amherst. My thoughts on all the colleges:

Howard:
Pros - Location, cost, focus on African-American culture and social justice issues.
Cons - A lot of parties, unreliable administration.
Other: How strong are the academics? I’ve heard mixed information

Earlham:
Pros - Cost, diverse, focus on social justice, good opportunities, and good academics
Cons - Location, too quirky for me, a lot of substance use, bad food

Lake Forest:
Pros- Location, cost, I like many of the people I’ve met through the college page, good disability services.
Cons- Not a well known school/kind of generic, supposedly a prep school atmosphere?
Other: How strong are the academics? Alo I’ve heard from others that the LFC community is fairly energetic and upbeat, can anyone confirm?

UMass Amherst:
Pros- Good business school, nice town, food
Cons- Party school, very close to my house, cost

Please note that this is not meant to be a comprehensive pros and cons list - I’m sure I’ve forgotten something somewhere! I would really appreciate any feedback on the questions I asked and on my pros and cons. And of course I’d love your opinions on which college I should attend :slight_smile: Thank you in advance and feel free to ask any questions you might have!

2

I can’t speak in any detail about those four schools, but I would discourage you from going to a school that would be a stretch financially for your parents … especially given that the school in question (UMass-Amherst) 1) likely won’t have much in the way of additional grant aid to offer you if our parents should run into any financial challenges in the next four years (most state schools don’t/won’t; many small private schools, like Lake Forest and Earlham, will at least try), and 2) might be tough to get thru in four years, especially if you are planning on a double major, which means the school would cost you even more – this is often a problem with large public universities; they often have more required courses and often students can’t get into the courses they want/need in the sequence needed.

In general, the smaller schools – Earlham, Lake Forest – are going to be more interested in and better equipped to support your interest in earning a double-major while doing unrelated things like theatre, all while getting you to graduation in four years. That’s sort of a hallmark of small liberal arts colleges.

If you want to do theatre, don’t go to a huge university – it will be next to impossible to get cast in a play, just due to sheer numbers. Bigger schools might also give preference to theatre majors in casting and other theatre roles. Smaller is definitely better in that respect.

Earlham’s Quaker orientation might give it an edge if you have an interest in social justice/community service.

If you are interested in study abroad and cost is an issue, make sure each school has good study abroad options that cost the same (or less) as a regular semester at that school. There should be several options available for which the only added cost will be the cost of the plane ticket.

I don’t know much about Howard, but as a parent, I’d be lobbying my kid to take that full ride. :slight_smile: That will provide you the option to do other things, like study abroad on more costly programs, go to grad school, take unpaid internships, etc. That’s pretty powerful. But make sure you fully understand the terms of the award – e.g., what gpa are you required to maintain and how realistic is that requirement, are there other contingencies, etc… Read this recent NYTimes article about how colleges sometimes entice kids with aid awards with difficult or hidden renewal requirements ('not saying Howard is doing this, but just beware): http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/education/edlife/why-upperclassmen-pay-more-they-may-get-less.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Feducation&_r=0

You are going to find parties and bad dorm food just about everywhere (even good dorm food gets old after a while). Also, you will find lousy administrations at a lot of schools (and it won’t always be apparent until you’re there). Don’t let those factors sway you too much. With respect to parties, focus more on whether there are alternatives to the party scene and whether you can escape that scene (e.g., are the wild parties in the dorms where you’d live? or elsewhere?).

Hope this helps. Good luck!

3

I know you mentioned substance use at earlham as a con, but that is something that you won’t really be able to escape in college.

Drugs and alcohol are going to be used often and by many people in college, you can find a niche group that doesn’t use them or just go to parties and not partake in it.

like mentioned above, go where you find things to do that suit you, earlham is a great school for some people, and not for others.

4

My daughter visited Earlham recently. I agree with SeniorStruggling that you can find a substance-free niche there. The thing that my daughter picked up on at Earlham is that it is very very small. She is currently doing dual enrollment at a large college with about 30,000 kids (when you count all the different programs on campus, not just her program). She was emphatic she wanted to apply only to small schools. But, when she realized the school newspaper staff at Earlham was three people, she thought maybe this is going too far in the opposite direction. As a positive, any group you want to join or anything you want to try, the answer is likely to be “great, we need more people!” She loved the classes she sat in on, and left them thinking she’d love to take classes from the professors. Another positive is that her scholarship is good for one semester of study abroad. At her other schools, study abroad tuition is not covered by financial aid. And Earlham students definitely go places - they have lots of kids in study abroad and internships.

We did not look at Lake Forest, but if you need disability services and Lake Forest is the best for that, I would mark that as one of the most important things to consider. You weren’t able to visit there?

5

I’m not going to tell you which to pick, but I can speak about Earlham and Howard. Two of D’s good friends are at those schools. As for the party aspect-the girl at Earlham is a “straight arrow”, I think they’re called, and has been extremely happy there. She has not been pressured to drink or do drugs. She loves it enough that she encouraged her sister to apply, but that didn’t happen. She is VERY social just minded, and found the school has only encouraged her interests in that area. She’s been getting great advising as she begins planning her post-undergrad years. She’s looking into several social justice areas. The students are not all quirky, and as a black student, she has felt welcomed.

D’s friend at Howard is pre-med and was a top student at her HS. He also got a full ride. He is not a partier and though he has mentioned the admin difficulties, he feels that the school itself has a great deal to offer. He comes back every year and talks to kids at the HS about applying. D came very close to applying and enjoyed the vibe there, but in the end decided it was too big. She is also a non-partier and was not made to feel odd on her visit.

Good luck!

6

Thank you all for your very thoughtful answers!

First @hsmom83 you completely echoed my thoughts about UMass! I know that the cost is a lot for my family, but since it is possible I thought I’d put it in the post. Second my main concern with the Howard administration is that I know they’ve lost other applicants’ score reports, housing info, etc. I don’t want my scholarship to be lost because of a clerical error on their part!

I know that there will be partying everywhere, but f

7

Sorry I accidentally hit post too soon on my last reply!

I know that there will be partying everywhere, but at Earlham and Howard it seemed particularly in your face. In the Howard group chat many students talk about getting wasted at Admitted Students Day and how much they party. @hsmom83 I think a lot of the parties are house parties hosted by frats. When I visited Earlham the student admission reps kept talking about getting drunk and all the opportunities to drink on campus. Again I completely understand that people party in college, but it seemed a little much.

On the other hand I went to a group chat with people from Lake Forest and one girl asked about partying, the student admission reps’ response were both, “I don’t party, but if you want to you can find it.” At LFC it seems like partiers would have to find their niche, while at the other schools ‘straight arrow’ type people would be the ones who have to find a niche. Of course I understand that this may be the ‘luck of the draw’ and that if I had talked to different student reps my perceptions of the two schools could be reversed.

What originally drew me to Earlham was the focus on community service and the idea that the students there loved learning and being in school. Though I definitely think the former is there and I love that aspect of Earlham, the latter is not as apparent. Many of the students I meant were very negative and complained about the workload, which from what I heard was less than my high school. Overall the campus didn’t seem very upbeat and energetic to me. I really would like to be at a school where peopl are enthusiastic about learning and unfortunately I didn’t get that vibe when I was visiting. If anyone has more information to offer on this part of Earlham, I’d greatly appreciate it.

Again thank you for all your replies thus far and if I missed a question/comment that you’d like me to respond to please let me know!

8

@snowbunny - Don’t let fear of Howard’s administration scare you off. One of my son’s goes to another school known for bureaucratic snafus. First semester they froze his account and he he couldn’t register for classes. He frantically called us and went to the billing office in a panic. His scholarship was not showing up in their records. He talked to the school they said “This happens all the time, we’ll take care of it.” They did. Happened again next semester, this time we only found out because he called and told us as he was leaving the office that he had taken care of it. Happened again 3rd semester, we only found out months later when he casually mentioned it when he was home on break. I am guessing it has happened again and he just hasn’t mentioned it. My point is he has gotten used to dealing with snafus and they are just the cost of getting a great education with a great scholarship at his school.

9

@snowbunny a lot of it also depends what type of people you hung out with and what class you chose to shadow. I was in a very good constructive class for juniors and seniors and everyone was pretty happy to be in it. I doubt you would have the same enthusiasm towards a class in a first year seminar. If you had sat in on my class you would have a better read on it. I sat in on psychoactive drug use and behavior which is a neuroscience and biochem course. It was tons of fun and the teacher was really invested.

10

OP, I only have a sample of 1, but D’s friend at Earlham was an IB student in HS, very accomplished, very driven. She’s more than found a challenge at Earlham and is not sitting alone doing her work-she has like-minded classmates and peers. I suspect you’ll find your people no matter where you are. No school has ONLY slackers or ONLY hard-driving academic types. But it sounds as though you don’t feel Earlham is the place for you.

11

In the past year, I’ve met two lovely people who graduated from Earlham. They are my only data point on Earlham, but if half the graduates are like these two, it’s doing something right. :slight_smile:

12

@Mom24boys Thank you for the reassurance!!

@SeniorStruggling Unfortunately I wasn’t able to sit in on a class as I was getting an exclusive personalized tour of the health center at the time :)) I did really like the faculty I talked to there, especially the ones in the politics department!

@sseamom @Youdon’tsay Thank you for the info! Earlham does seem to produce excellent people :slight_smile:

13

@Snowybuny the faculty are really amazing, if you visit on your own they give you more attention and a more individualized tour of the place.

When I visited first, they took me to all of the places and i met with all of the teachers that I would start and end with as a pre med student.

14

@SeniorStruggling Thank you for the info!

Does anyone else have any thoughts?

15

Only indirectly, but we had always heard that Lake Forest had a pretty big scene so I wouldn’t use the fact that the OP’s guide was not a partier to suggest that, unlike Earlham, Lake Forest is a generally sub-free community. I suspect that there are plenty of sub and sub free students at both schools. That is, of course, the difficulty with visits – a single, seemingly random experience can shape our perspective completely.

16

I’m no expert on Lake Forest, but I live nearby and S16 and I went to a prospective student program last summer. What stood out to both of us was Lake Forest’s emphasis on career counseling. It seems that career counseling for all students starts freshman year and continues all four years. The school is pretty easily accessible to both Chicago and Milwaukee and there seems to be a lot of emphasis on internships, which might be particularly interesting to a prospective business major like you. As you probably know, Lake Forest is a very wealthy community (and the campus is beautiful) but the people that we saw on campus and at the program seemed to be much more diverse than the community itself. Also, I think the campus would be walking distance (although maybe a long walk) to the commuter rail into Chicago, if that interests you.

17

@Snowybuny You can find plenty of kids who do not party at Howard and who are very interested in social justice. I also will say that if you got a full ride you should have a good chance at the honors programs. I would grab the business school if you do go, as it is strong and well respected and has a TON of connections for the kids. The school of B kids tend to be go getters and focused. My D is not a party type. She was excited, but very nervous, about Howard. She found her niche (academically motivated kids who wanted to have clean fun of movies, volunteering, activities, exploring DC, etc. ) and has loved it. She has also LOVED the full ride. It has meant a lack of stress on many levels and leaving college without owing one dime. Remember also that the kids who are not party types generally are not spending a bunch of time on the social media stuff. The party culture is at Howard, but so are the cultures of service (look up their alternative spring break), hard work and justice.

That being said, Earlham is a great choice if you want a small, earthy school. I would not let the drug thing scare you away. You will find friends who are not into that.

I don’t know anything about Lake Forrest so cannot comment.

I would rule out UMass Amherst as cost only increases yearly and aid may not…and remember books, travel, etc. as well as spending money.

It is too bad that you cannot visit all those that you were accepted to. Go with your gut.

You have great choices. Good job! Whatever you decide, I am sure that you will do very, very well!

18

Re: LFC Yes, there is definitely a drinking and drug culture there, like on many campuses. I’ve worked with several students from LFC over the years.

It’s possible to walk to the train station from campus and head down to Chicago (not Milwaukee). One drawback is the train schedule can get unfriendly later at night & on the weekends, with infrequent trains. Also, it’s not exactly a quick trip down to Chicago; probably an hour. All that to say, the kids are probably not heading downtown as often as one might think.

The area around campus is very safe, and also very affluent, and white.

As a parent, and lacking a money tree in the back yard, I’d be hard pressed to pass up a full ride. See the UK avatar. D2 is taking the money and heading down to Lexington. She might have “better” options, school-wise, but debt-free is going to offer her opportunities we wouldn’t have if we were all worried about $$.

Good luck. IMO, it’s really hard to know ahead of time, which school is going to be the best fit. You’ve got some great options, congrats!

19

@Midwestmomofboys Hmm… I had read various reviews online where people complained about the lack of a party scene at LFC. I know that there is substance use at LFC, but my impression was that there was less of it? Thank you for the new info!

@Bella723 @Midwest67 Thank you! The commuter train is a fifteen minute walk from campus, which isn’t that bad. I know that a lot of classes go to Chicago too!

@ReturningFavor Thank you for telling me about your experience with Howard!! I’m glad that your daughter is happy there. Your story is very reassuring and definitely is making me consider Howard more :slight_smile: I will check out their honors program and alternate spring break!

I definitely understand the value of a full ride and what it could give me. My dad would definitely be happier if I didn’t go to Howard though because he’s a bit prejudiced ~X(

It is really hard to tell the vibe when I can’t visit and I’m worried that my impressions of these schools are completely off base.

20

@snowbunny – just like you shouldn’t give too much credence to one person’s comments on campus, don’t give too much to one person (me) on the Internet! I’ve heard LFC party scene but that’s just one random, anonymous person!

We have spent time at Earlham and know several kids there, and while there is definitely alcohol etc, there is no pressure to participate (in fact my kid was offered some, declined, and felt totally comfortable and accepted for that choice). So I would just let the party issue cancel itself out on those two schools, and focus on other characteristics and opportunities.

Good luck!