<p>I've heard a number of presentations by ND admissions people in recent years and in them, they have stated that only those who feel fairly certain about their credentials should consider applying early. Because they have never quantified how good you had to be and because they said that the only reason to apply early was to find out sooner rather than later whether or not you could get in, we did not pursue this route with our first child. This child was admitted to ND via the regular process.</p>
<p>Our high school college counselor has now told child #2 that she should apply early to increase her odds of being admitted to ND, along with another school on our daughter's list of colleges. Given what I've heard from three different ND admissions people over the past four years ("Don't apply unless you're hot stuff and you need to know by Christmas"), can anyone clarify whether applying early actually increases your odds of being admitted? Yes, the acceptance rate is high for early applicants, but since ND discourages people from applying early except if they're off the charts, it's a self-selecting process.</p>
<p>My other concern for child #2, other than getting into ND, is whether applying early hurts one's chances in the financial aid process. Some schools may give less financial aid in an early decision/early process, thinking that your threshold of financial pain is higher because of a perceived above-average desire to attend Notre Dame.</p>
<p>I'd apply regular. Then you're in the pool with everyone else, and unless you are almost positive your daughter will get in early (which is hard to be), I'd hold off. A friend with better stats than I applied early and was flat out rejected, not even deferred. If you apply regular, they have a better idea what the pool is like.</p>
<p>A student who would be admitted in the EA pool would also be admitted in the RD pool, so there is little to be gained by applying early except for a slightly earlier end to the whole wretched admissions process. </p>
<p>I would ask the guidance counselor to explain the basis for this advice. Specifically, how do your child's credentials compare to other students from her high school who applied EA to Notre Dame this academic year? Not three years ago, or five years ago, but this year? Yes, it's true that the odds for EA applicants are better than for RD applicants, but, as you noted, that is because the EA pool is stronger. That does NOT mean that the admissions odds for a particular student will be better if she applies early. Given the number of students who are deferred EA but admitted RD, the logical conclusion should be the opposite one.</p>
<p>high school counselors generally have NO IDEA what they were talking about. trust me on that one. Listen to the experts (in this case Notre dame admissions people) after all they are the ones affilliated with the university</p>
<p>With a child at ND, and having heard their spiel, I'd trust your own experience, much more than that of your HS gc. ND admissions is very up-front and consistent on their EA policy--they don't recommend it unless an applicant is in the upper tier of applicants--which from recent admissions cycles I'd say is ACT 33+, top 5% of class, GPA 3.95+, etc. ND seems a little more numbers driven than some other top colleges, and I'd say especially so for EA.</p>
<p>It really depends on whether your GC is giving specific advice based on experience or general advice. I know that ND has always said that EA applicants should be in the upper tiers, but studies some years ago showed that they were not acting on their advice, as student who applied early were getting in with lower scores than their RD peers. Don't know if that is the case anymore after they were called on that.</p>
<p>I know in our case, it was a definite advantage to EA to the schools where S applied. The numbers made it clear. Now if your GC has info specific to your highschool that kids in your student's situation will do better early, by all means do so. Otherwise, he is giving you conventional wisdom that may not apply in this case. In which case you may wish to hold off on the app.</p>
<p>Still, EA is not a bad idea as a litmus test on how strong the app is. My oldest son applied to GT, State School, BC, and Safety School early. It gave him a good idea where he stood. He was deferred at GT, accepted everywhere else with a merit package ast Safety. It then gave him a new starting point for the rest of his apps. He knew that he had BC in the bag for selectivity and Safety and state for financials. That gave him insights on where to place his other markers. Does ND reject or defer EA candidates? I have not kept up so I do not know. If they just defer, it gives you a chance to send other stuff to the school to bolster the app. If they just reject and are harsher or EA candidates, it would not be a good idea. If they do both, it could be a good litmus test. I suggest sticking a rolling and/or other early school in the mix so it isn't such a stinger if the news is not good.</p>
<p>EA is non-binding at ND-if the app is strong as mentioned in above posts, great scores, grades, essay, etc., then you really have nothing to lose. Likely, the app will be deferred if on that borderline strong app. I have to agree that it seems that ND is more numbers driven, esp in the EA round, so that is something to consider. And, more imp, make sure there is a good mix of apps; a safety or rolling admissions is always nice to have in the back pocket. As far as fin aid, as another thread indicated, ND is need-blind. If one qualifies for fin aid, I can't imagine that applying early would hurt the fin aid award as I assume that the award is numbers driven as well.</p>
<p>I would think in the early rounds since there is less pressure on the adcoms they have more time to look at the apps. I know things turn into a frenzy prime time.</p>
<p>If the student is deferred, he has the opportunity to augment the app, and be a familiar to the adcoms second time around. I don't think EA is a problem in terms of award money.</p>
<p>You bring up several good points which I didn't bring forward at the time but which I totally agree with:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If you apply RD, you have another semester to gain awards and get good grades.</p></li>
<li><p>What I didn't mention is that at our children's school, they require that all applications be completed by December 1. This gives the counselors some more free time to look at applications in December, rather than coming back from Christmas vacation and finding a mountain of 12/31 applications.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Now, I realize that #2 largely contradicts #1. If EA apps are due 11/1 and our school requires apps to be done by 12/1, we have only gained an extra month, but the 1st semester grades won't be done yet. Having said that, I agree with the counselor's idea to get the apps in early, yet keep the admissions office updated with grades and awards as they become known. It's a tradeoff.</p>
<p>I'm always interested in more opinions, but thanks to all who have written so far. I think this seals the deal and we will apply RD.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse - in response to a question you raised, I feel subjectively that they judge you more harshly, even though I have <em>NO</em> proof of that. It's just a gut feeling. </p>
<p>"Should I apply during Early Action or Regular Action?</p>
<p>Early Action can be a confusing process because every college and university uses it in a different way. Perhaps the easiest means of understanding how Notre Dame uses the Early Action process is to describe what it is not. It is not the avenue students should take merely because Notre Dame is their first choice. Nor is it easier to gain admission through the Early Action process.</p>
<p>In deciding whether or not to apply Early, a student should ask themselves a simple question: can I submit my best application in October of my senior year? If he or she believes that they can put their best foot forward at that time, then Early Action is probably the correct route for them. However, if a student believes that an extra semester could be beneficial to their application for whatever reason (to raise their grades a little, to take an extra SAT or ACT, to add on to their resume, etc.), then that student should consider applying during Regular Action.</p>
<p>There are two additional notes that a student should also consider when deciding whether to apply via Early or Regular Action. The first is that our Early Action process is non-binding. This means that if a student is admitted in Early Action, he or she still has until May 1st to decide whether or not to attend Notre Dame. Second, if a student applies Early and then takes a standardized test in either November or December, there is no guarantee that we will receive those scores in time to consider them along with the rest of a student's application. We should receive standardized test scores for tests administered in October. Students should plan accordingly.</p>
<p>For more information on when to apply, please click here. Also, if you have any further questions, please call the Undergraduate Admissions Office at (574) 631-7505."</p>
<p>One other point that has been in several ND threads the last 2 years is how ND treats deferred EA aps when they are reviewed during RD; i.e.-are they reviewed with the entire pool of RD, reviewed at the end of RD, the entire application re-read or just the adcom's notes, etc? </p>
<p>There were a lot of opinions, but my general take over reading those posts was that perhaps many EA aps would have faired better had they been regular RD aps, rather than deferred EA aps. I don't have stats to back that up. It was just my gut reaction to many of the posts.</p>
<p>I did specifically ask a ND adcom the admissions rate of deferred EA aps during RD round and his answer was that it was the same as the admission rate of RD aps.</p>
<p>A poster above mentioned the higher admission rate of EA for ND. I do believe them when they say they don't give any preference for EA. I believe the higher admission rate for EA is the result of 3 things:
a) self selecting pool of aps with very high scores/GPA/etc
b) higher numbers of legacy aps during EA
c) higher numbers of recruited athletes applying EA</p>
<p>My son applied EA. He wasn't over the top in grades, but had a fairly strong application; probably as strong as it would had been had he applied RD... He was deferred... RD came around and he was waitlisted...(talk about an EA application being drawn out, lol.) He was disappointed, but not discouraged- as he felt he would end up at ND. He sent an additional letter of interest as well as a peer recommendation- talking about him as a person as compared to his academics. Low and behold, by the Grace of God he was admited off the waitlist on May 9th. His Fin Aid package from ND was comparable to the packages he had received from his other schools (for ex. BC, GW, Villanova etc). </p>
<p>To be quite honest I always believe that you end up where you are meant to be. It may not be where you think you want to be, but I am a firm believer in fate. Four children (2 now in college and 2 with learning disabilities- I have learned you just take life as it comes...because it always comes) </p>
<p>Good Luck with your decisions....and enjoy this time....</p>
<p>TymeflysBy--Great post and I too believe in that revelation. Plan accordingly with the safeties, matches and reaches and you will get planted where you belong. And, should you be a transfer, think of that as perhaps the period of time that was needed to help prepare you even more for ND. I would have never dreamed that our student would end up at ND--but I can assure you that now, as he will enter his JR year this fall, that he is indeed in the right place (given his personality, intended major, etc.) I really cannot imagine what it would have been like for him to have chosen to attend another school and he says the same thing many times over. I stand by my previous post and also believe that admissions are, as we all have witnessed, a wild card--there are no guarantees and sometimes you just have to leap. Thanks for your post!</p>
<p>My daughter applied Ea and was accepted for us the relief of knowing was worth the risk. If your application would be accepted in RD it will be if not in EA. There was not much more to add to application afer Dec anyway so we figured we would send it in. Her stats were 1460 on SAT, 100 average,top 2% of class no sports but service activities leadership positions and 20 hrs per week PT work. Look to see how your stats compare with this years class and if they are at or near the top go for it. Good luck</p>