I agree that EA apps do not lose out on merit and say so. I don’t think that is the case with ED. As I stated, there is that possibility, and I’ve read about students getting ED awards but I have never seen it personally with ED kids, nor has anyone I’ve known. Given that ED kids tend to be the top kids, if we are to believe what selective schools say abou the ED pool, you’d think more of them would be getting merit money. I’ve seen some spectacular ED kids accepted, yes, and not get merit whereas hold outs get some. I also said that there are awards out there that are supposed to go to the absolute top accepted students, and if the school is doing this with integrity, which I will assume, ED kids will get equal consideration for them.
But there are merit awards out there that are sweetners to induce acceptance from the applicants. They are specifically given out for that purpose. To woo that kid who might be going to a school bit more selective or a direct competitor school. ED kids are NOT going to get that money. There is no point in offering that to them. You lose out on those funds when you go ED
I want to make it clear that I did not unequivocally say that you lose out on all merit when you apply ED.
Davidson gave big scholarships (the Belk - full tuition) to kids in ED both last year and the year before. And I know Denison gives merit in ED too. It happens. But not relevant to this OP and his son’s search. He’s not looking at ED schools that give merit.
OP your son should not wait to apply anywhere RD unless it’s a school that only offers ED and RD. My son applied (and was accepted) ED and had applied to 7 other schools EA with 2 more that didn’t offer EA ready to go if he had gotten rejected. He had 4 other acceptances by the time he accepted the offer at his ED school. Those acceptances are great to have, especially if they are schools you’d truly consider, when waiting for that ED email.
@homerdog Agree with you on the sporty and smart thing. My son and his friends are all high stats kids going to competitive schools and are both sporty and smart. He didn’t have to compromise or have 2 friend groups. All worked really hard and played just as hard. They definitely are not mutually exclusive.
@collegemom9, that’s ironically the core argument I made when I was pushing him to consider Northwestern (my alma mater). I told him he’d make friends for life. I said the smaller, competitive schools like NU won’t have the same demographics as his high school where he feels a bit unique in being a brainy athlete. Here he has his study friends and his hanging-out friends and they’re mutually exclusive. I told him that of 8,000 kids, there could be >1,000 who played high school sports - and he wouldn’t need to sift through 30,000 undergrads to find his niche. Its just a tough argument for a 17 year old who hasn’t seen this in his own very limited experience. I also started to realize that wanting him to consider Northwestern was more about me than him so I backed off at that point and just want to make sure he’s confident in his decision (and that I’m confident we go through the process intelligently).
@121IllinoisDad Yeah I think there’s no need to push him into applying to a school that has no interest but hopefully he realizes at some point that he doesn’t need to have 2 groups of friends. He doesn’t want to go through life assuming that because a kid is athletic they aren’t smart or into school. Clearly he is both.
@121IllinoisDad S19 struggled with the two groups of friends thing (soccer and school friends) until he quit soccer and joined XC/track. There he found kids who were both. Some of his track friends aren’t that sporty, just great runners. But some are cast offs from soccer, lacrosse and tennis and those kids are all around strong athletes who, for whatever reason, decided to switch sports. We have quite a few athletes going to Ivies from our high school and many with 35/36 ACT or 1550+ SAT with lots of rigor. Came from XC/track but also golf, tennis, swimming and soccer. Smart athletes are definitely a thing. It changed S19’s world when he found kids like this. He’s found them again at Bowdoin. Everywhere he turned there were student athletes which is typical with the NESCAC schools.
If your son wants a bigger school, I’m sure he will find engineering kids who play intramural or club sports on campus!
And NU is competitive. The kids are competitive with one another. If you want to open up more options, he can look at a school like Vanderbilt which is known for a more collaborative atmosphere. Not sure it’s rah rah enough for him though. Very few kids get merit. Our S19 was waitlisted with 1540 SAT one sitting Aug of junior year, NMF, almost perfect GPA with all 5s on APs, quite advanced in math with BC Calc junior year and multivariable senior year but AP and honors level of all subjects all through high school. He applied for their full scholarships but (obviously) did not receive one. So, see, you can find other schools that fit your S but I think a lot of us are saying his list looks pretty good already. I agree to add Pitt.
I agree with looking all other schools besides the Big10. My son sounds very similar to yours - even thought about getting an engineering degree prior to an MBA. However, he decided to attend UChicago and is pursuing a double major in Econ (specialization in business) and Statistics. He fell in love with UChicago when we visited the summer before his junior year of high school. MI has always been on his radar - his dad and most of my family attended MI (all in Engineering and/or Ross). He applied to MI EA and UChicago ED and was accepted to both - pulled MI application when accepted to UChicago.
He was initially worried about UChicago since he is very outgoing and thought he would have more “fun” at a larger school like Michigan. He has found a wonderful group of friends at school and has a very active social life. He returned home last week and when I asked him if he was happy in Chicago, he said it was the best decision he could have made.
FYI, Georgia Tech’s EA deadline is usually 10/15 so it’s wise to get started with essays this summer so there is time for revisions. I agree with Pitt as a rolling admission option. Merit there has gotten quiet competitive there so would suggest really spending a good amount of time on the essays (my S ended getting 25K merit from Pitt). If you can squeeze in a visit to a school like Vanderbilt just to compare to larger schools, it might be helpful. Good merit at Alabama and Auburn if he wants to consider others in the southeast.
ED = Early Decision. Applicant commits to attend if admission, except if the financial aid is insufficient. Nevertheless, it is best to apply ED only to a clear first choice that appears to be affordable based on net price calculator, and where making the commitment to attend does not require comparing financial aid and scholarship offers. ED will show a high level of applicant’s interest, but may reduce the chance of getting competitive merit scholarships. An ED admission that is affordable means that the student’s applications are finished early.
EA = Early Action. Does not require a commitment to attend. Generally advantageous to apply EA if possible and not restricted by applications to other colleges (see below), since knowing early whether one is admitted can allow adjusting application strategy after an EA decision. An EA admission that is affordable gives the student a safety.
REA = Restricted Early Action (or other names). Does not require a commitment to attend. Applicant agrees not to apply ED anywhere. Many REA colleges also require the applicant to agree not to apply EA to certain sets of other colleges. Each REA college may have different restrictions. Student should consider whether applying early to an REA college is worth giving up some other ED or EA applications as the REA college restricts.
Rolling admission. Many decisions are made as applications come in. Generally, it is thought that applying to rolling colleges early is advantageous, since the college or some of its majors may become more selective as they fill up later. An early rolling admission that is affordable gives the student a safety.
“UChicago since he is very outgoing and thought he would have more “fun” at a larger school like Michigan.”
There’s no comparison between those schools when it comes to social life, you cannot generalize from an anecdote. There are a lot more grads from Michigan out here i the bay area and they all say they had a great time there. Even now in the summer they’re participating in that social life by attending or following UM in the college baseball world series. Even the Chicago adcom who came out here said in his presentation, if you’re looking for a rah rah school, consider applying elsewhere. If that’s one of the things the OP wants, it would not good to steer the to schools like Chicago.
As to applying EA to colleges when you apply ED elsewhere, as noted above that is not possible with colleges that have restricted early action (such as Yale and Harvard which prohibit you . with an exception for state public colleges, from applying ED or EA anywhere else). It is also not possible for some other colleges that have EA, such as Georgetown, which allows you to apply EA to it while applying EA to other colleges but prohibits you from applying ED to other colleges. So you need to check the particular EA and ED rules for each college to which you are applying to confirm what you can actually do.
I don’t mean to hijack, but I have an ED/EA related question. I’m assuming it’s possible to ED2 to a favorite school and then RD to as many schools as you want. But if you RD to schools that are known for rejecting kids they feel are using them as a safety(Tufts, Lehigh, Tulane), are you guaranteeing a rejection? For example, if a kid applies ED2 to Vassar and RD to Tulane, Tufts, and Lehigh, how likely are those RD schools to reject the applicant? From what I hear about those schools, I would think very likely. Is that true? I guess it depends on how likely they think it is that you’ll get into Vassar. Or do they not even take it that far and just reject outright? Anyone know?
There is no way that the RD school can know that you are applying ED2 to Vassar (or applying ED 2 anywhere) so that scenario will not be a factor in their RD decision. Of course, the RD schools MAY consider more generally whether you are likely to attend if admitted based on demonstrated interest (or lack thereof).
I read somewhere that the ED I and II acceptance rate at Tulane is around 30% and EA is around 16% with the RD rate at about 4%. Whatever the reason, rejection in the RD round at Tulane is highly likely.
@cupugu, thanks, I didn’t realize that the RD schools don’t know about ED applications.
@Temperantia, that’s interesting. That’s a crazy low RD acceptance rate. I guess Tulane was a bad example because they have EA. But based on what @cupugu said, I guess I won’t have to worry about any of my daughter’s RD schools that don’t have EA seeing her ED schools.