Early Applications to UChicago

I do understand that. You are looking at this from the student’s point of view, though and I’m looking at this from the POV of the college. Are there equally fabulous students who would contribute to the college who aren’t currently being attracted? Surely there are. That’s a completely different issue than the earlier point that we should/shouldn’t be trying to attract students who aren’t sure about UChicago or who might have another college as their first choice.

The question of whether ED attracts a ‘fair’ blend of students from all economic strata is financial and a function of where the college stands on its endowment, budgetary priorities and long term goals. The parent in me is saddened by the doughnut hole or valley effect that all elite colleges seem to be baking into their financial aid models - where the majority of students will be either very poor or very wealthy because the EFC of the middle incomes is not realistic. But the CPA and business owner in me understands the economic reality that’s driving that model and understands that if that’s the reality of the situation, UChicago is smart to further hone its admissions policies to reflect that rather than play the game of keeping hope alive that a merit scholarship might be forthcoming.

I’m saying that ED favors the wealthy plain and simple. These atudents can easily ED because price is no object.
milee30 - your post explains it much better than I could do it - thank you.

@leigh22 - middle class families might be making the choice to apply EA because they wish to compare merit aid packages (heck, rich families might be doing the same thing), but UChicago will have the institutional funds to meet their financial needs. So if ED favors “the wealthy” it’s by individual family choice. UChicago seems to be breaking the mold on this one anyway, since at least one full-tuition scholarship is available regardless of whether you apply ED or EA.

Having money is what favors the wealthy.

If you need max aid, you can review the Early fin aid package and see. If you can run the NPC, you’ll have an early projected idea. With high or highest need, no, you don’t use an Early application to a college that isn’t Meet Full Need or offer huge merit. You don’t “dream” of a UC as an OOS kid or set sights on colleges known for poor aid.

If a college is sincerely your first choice and you and your app are the quality they seek, you look at the numbers rationally.

Could an Early college short you, versus what another “might” offer? Maybe. The question you ask is, do I want to take a chance X offers 50k, when feel we “need” 60k? Meanwhile college Y might offer that 60k, or even 65k? You do this thinking up front. And you have an escape clause.

@surelyhuman : Due to popular demand, I am sharing the following data:

A look at UChicago Registrar Enrollment Reports (https://uchicago.app.box.com/s/trkqpw1ztu0lc4niahgz0y7g6eyqt6z6 from https://registrar.uchicago.edu/data-reporting/) shows the following pattern for the number of undergraduates in the College:

  1. [] 2015 Winter 5591
    [
    ] 2015 Spring 5395 ==> reduce by 196
    [] 2015 Autumn 5860 ----> New students come
    [
    ] 2016 Winter 5757 ==> reduce by 103
    [] 2016 Spring 5539 ==> reduce by another 218
    [
    ] 2016 Autumn 5971 ----> New students come
    [] 2017 Winter 5838 ==> ** reduce by 133 **
    [li] 2017 Spring 5588 ==> reduce by another 250[/li][
    ] 2017 Autumn 6286 ----> New students come
    [] 2018 Winter 6138 ==> **reduce by 148 **
    [li] 2018 Spring 5919 ==> reduce by 219[/li][
    ] 2018 Autumn 6595 > New students come

Between 103 and 148 students disappeared after one winter quarter in the last 3 years. Where did they go?
An even larger number of its students disappeared after another quarter.

In the Autumn Quarter 2018 Census Report (https://uchicago.app.box.com/s/trkqpw1ztu0lc4niahgz0y7g6eyqt6z6/file/337879473889), it states it has 123 Non‐Enrolled Students (exclude No Further Enrollments Req students).

Any explanation for the huge reduction of students from quarter to quarter? :open_mouth:

99% retention rate?? :-/ :frowning: If you are there, do you know someone who just disappeared?

Lmao! So conspiratorial. It’s from people graduating. A ton of people graduate in autumn or winter - lots of leeway in classes (48 slots - but need only 42 to graduate and this can be reduced to 36*) you can take means that you can easily graduate early if you want to save money or you want to start working.

*starting with the class of 2021, in order to counter this (so their precious tuition dollars stops graduating early so often) AP credit is capped so you must take 38 classes to graduate

@HydeSnark One of my friends’ kid graduated after the winter quarter because the parents wanted to save $25,000. Yes, it is very common to graduate before spring quarter but of course that simple fact won’t stop conspiracy theory.

@nrtlax33 I am not a student there. So I can’t tell for sure but I can speculate. Chicago takes in very very few transfers. Much smaller than Columbia and Vandy for instance. I suspect there isn’t that much attrition. I can think of one rational explanation if your numbers are right. Remember that four year graduation numbers are not 100% at even the best of schools. So even if 10% of each cohort graduates late, that would mean close to 150 to 160 students in each cohort could be graduating in other quarters as they complete their requirement and this would explain a lot of the changes you are seeing.
There is nothing sinister going on here friend. You are hunting for witches among humans.

I am sure there are others who can think of other reasons. Looks like others have pointed to early graduation as a reason as well.

Have a wonderful evening

There are also a number of students who take courses during the summer quarter enabling them to fulfill the required number of credits to graduate earlier. The number may even go higher now since they allow students to take 5 instead of 4 courses per quarter. No need for conspiracy theories.

One other thought - perhaps @HydeSnark could address - is potential patterns of study abroad. At my older daughter’s school - a semester school - significantly more students study abroad junior spring than junior fall. So there would be a significant drop in registrar enrollments for classes on campus each spring semester reflecting this. If the same is true at Chicago, that could explain the drop in winter and spring if there is a preference for study abroad those quarters. Just a thought.

I think more people do study abroad winter or spring than autumn, but they would still count as enrolled in the college (unless they did a non uchicago study abroad, which is paretty rare), so I don’t think that accounts for it.

Also the students withdrawing or taking leave of absence (medical, etc.), which is also published.

Pretty much an open book : https://registrar.uchicago.edu/data-reporting/historical-enrollment/

@HydeSnark @85bears46 @surelyhuman : For your reference, the number of undergraduates who graduated from the college did not grow at all during the period (https://registrar.uchicago.edu/data-reporting/degrees-awarded/)

2016: 1465 graduated from college, total disappearing students 221
2017: 1397 graduated from college, total disappearing students 383
2018: 1415 graduated from college, total disappearing students 367

It looks like quit a few students didn’t graduate for one reason or another. In 2017, when fewer students graduated, more students disappeared. @fbsdreams pointed out some of them might have withdrawn.

Early graduation might be a factor but it can’t account for all the reductions quarter by quarter. In the census report, it states for this quarter there are 23 suspended, 23 withdrawn, the rest is on some kind of leaves. But UChicago claims retention rate of 99% – only 18 freshmen can be among the 123 Non‐Enrolled Students. Is that a possibility? My understanding is that usually freshman has the biggest problem for survival.

This sounds like a case for Inspector Clouseau. Where did those disappearing students go to? Has anyone checked Jimmy’s? The basement of BJ? The remoter corners of Regenstein?

How about the crawl space of Harper - or were they half-floors? Along with Ari. Schwartz.

How does one calculate the number of “disappearing students” from the number of degrees awarded given in post#32 and the link provided?

Never mind. I think I get it. Disappearing students were calculated in post #24. In fact, if some of those who disappear between quarters reappear, there may even be a higher number of disappearing students. Inspector Clouseau will have his hands full with this.

I for one do not believe the University Administration is hiding something. To speculate on the reason why the number of students fluctuates is kind of pointless and will just be a self fulfilling hypothesis (If you believe U of C is evil, then you will believe U of C is falsifying its retention rate).

The best way to resolve this is to ask the University Registrar directly. They must have an explanation for the College enrollment quarter to quarter fluctuation.

They are all being forcibly removed and replaced with Stepford Chicago students. Or Zombies.

^^ “Replaced with Stepford Chicago students” will certainly live up to the claim of a ‘Transformative Undergraduate Education’ as stated on their new website lol :wink: