Early Decision vs Financial Aid

Paying for College
21

<p>

</p>

<p>Actually, many of the other schools he is considering won’t accept the credit even with an A for his Microbio course - mainly because they don’t consider a cc course to be on par with their classes. They might accept his Effective Speaking. Some will and some won’t accept English composition. I think his favorite school is one that won’t, but I’m not 100% certain of it. We have asked at all of the schools, mostly via e-mail, but a couple in person.</p>

<p>The safety school pretty much said, “anything goes.” I think that’s what lowered them considerably in his eyes before we even went to visit.</p>

<p>He’s not sure which major he wants yet - perhaps Neuroscience. He likes a lot of things.</p>

<p>I’m perfectly ok if he changes his mind about his future and have told him that several times. I doubt it will be due to lack of academic ability though. I’ve seen (literally) thousands of students via my job (not our business - that’s a different field). Now if he meets a special girl, that’s a different story. All bets are off then. ;)</p>

22

<p>

</p>

<p>Actually some colleges DO make students take courses again with a C grade. In my major, all courses required for graduation in the major (even lower level ones taken at a CC) had to have a grade of C or better. Students with a lower grade probably would not have even been accepted into MY major with a C grade…but if they were…that C grade would not have counted towards their graduation requirement and they would have been required to take the course again to cancel out the C grade.</p>

23

<p>While it’s true that some/many majors require a certain GPA within the major, I don’t think that’s what the OP’s concern is.</p>

<p>Your university probably would have accepted the C, but your major wouldn’t.</p>

<p>It sounds like her son has taken some dual enrollment classes at a CC. They’re concerned because the safety SCHOOL will accept those credits. That is very typical. Most SCHOOLS will accept a C and not demand a “do-over”. Now…the major (such as yours…speech pathology?) may or may not accept a C in some class…especially if the overall GPA isn’t high enough for the major.</p>

<p>There’s a difference between what a major will accept and what a school will accept. I’ve known kids to transfer into Cornell that have a C or two in some CC class. Cornell didn’t require a do-over. The credits show up as accepted credits. It’s just not necessary for - say - an engineering major - to retake an art history class or even a US History that he got a C in at a community college. </p>

<p>I know that at my kids’ safety school, the College of Nursing pretty much insists that accepted students have a 3.5 GPA…so for that major, a do-over may be req’d. </p>

<p>That said, getting a C in some odd class is not usually the end for most majors. Even some pre-meds (who generally have to have HIGH GPAs for med school acceptance, will have a lone C somewhere.</p>

24

<p>Orangemom12… The reason coaches push ED is that it is the only place where they have any pull. By the time it gets to RD, admissions no longer want to hear anything from the coaches. This was our experience, and was told to us by multiple coaches. Also, as told to us by a coach, financial aid is always an allowable reason to say NO. But beware that if you decline ED for one school in a conference, like NESCAC, then the other schools will also pass on you since the aid packages are supposed to be similar. Keep in mind, you can certainly apply to early action schools in addition to the ED school, same applies if your RD apps are in before the ED application. Requires planning but a good way to hedge your bets. That is why coaches say to apply ED2 at least.</p>

25

<p>My oldest who just graduated used to quip that while you had to keep a B average in your major (or you had to go before committee), “Ds get degrees” which is just awful and he never had a D, but I guess it was a saying around campus.</p>

26

<p>^^^^</p>

<p>The bottom line is that if schools (even top ones) only granted degrees for cumulative 3.0+ GPAs (B’s or better in all subjects), they’d be granting few degrees.</p>

<p>I don’t know the numbers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if half of the degrees granted have at least one C somewhere on the transcript. </p>

<p>Even over in the Pre-med forum…an elite college grad who is also a recent elite med school grad, had a C in OChem…a class which is super important to med schools. So a C, even in an important class, is not fatal to most majors/career objectives.</p>

27

<p>

We call that grade inflation. Actually I think most students want As. Few get them which is good.</p>

28

<p>*Actually, many of the other schools he is considering won’t accept the credit even with an A for his Microbio course - mainly because they don’t consider a cc course to be on par with their classes. They might accept his Effective Speaking. Some will and some won’t accept English composition. I think his favorite school is one that won’t, but I’m not 100% certain of it. We have asked at all of the schools, mostly via e-mail, but a couple in person.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Which college will not accept any credit from a CC course…not even a A? </p>

<p>Seriously, that is so unusual. </p>

<p>I know that some schools won’t accept AP credits, do these schools accept any AP credits?</p>

<p>*The safety school pretty much said, “anything goes.” I think that’s what lowered them considerably in his eyes before we even went to visit.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>he must think Berkeley is pretty pathetic then.</p>

29

<p>And, he must think Stanford is is beneath him…it accepts a C- for transfer credit (even from a CC)…</p>

<p>It is completed at an accredited institution </p>

<p>It is completed with a grade of C- or better</p>

30

<p>

</p>

<p>Quite honestly, I don’t feel like naming schools, however, they are considered top schools on college confidential’s list. It’s also NOT uncommon as we’ve heard much of the same from many fellow homeschoolers across the nation on a homeschooling forum I frequent. It’s not like we’re transferring in from a cc, it is a dual enrollment deal even though the courses we are talking about have almost 100% cc students in them and are considered college level, not remedial. The microbio class, specifically, is an upper level (200 level) cc class. However, even some I know who have transferred in didn’t have all their credits transfer. There are colleges out there who don’t accept dual-enrolled credits at all or who don’t accept them within certain classes or don’t accept them within a major. When we’ve talked in person and have asked, the reason given is that the cc classes aren’t necessarily up to the same level as the four year class. They don’t know if it is or isn’t, but opt to not give credit. </p>

<p>And yes, these schools generally accept AP credits for a 4 or 5.</p>

<p>Our local school talks about the benefits of having dropped AP classes in favor of “real” college classes. Those benefits are only guaranteed for state schools and lower level private schools from what I’ve found. I wish I’d known that ahead of time as I’d have gone out of my way to find AP instead. Higher level schools may or may not accept them. I do know there are several who get an A or B in the cc class who never would have gotten above a 2 on the similar AP test, so I have to say, I can see where the four year schools are coming from. I know of kids IRL who have taken some college level classes our school offers and received college credit, then tested into remedial classes when they went to a four year school. It’s not as rare as it should be. Personally, I have no idea if the microbio class middle son took is as worthy as that which he’d take at a top four year school. He thought the cc class was easy (interesting, but easy), so I have my doubts. I’m ok with him retaking the course, so it’s no big deal. It’s not like he could have taken an AP test in that anyway.</p>

<p>Since the safety school will accept a c and [some] higher level schools won’t accept credits at all due to not trusting the content of the class it naturally led to wondering about the content level of the safety school’s course(s). Maybe they are the same. Maybe not. Who knows? I know even among classes at the same college, but with different profs, the content can be a bit different - the same “basics,” (a cell is still a cell) but beyond that, a bit of difference.</p>

<p>I’m not at ALL talking about getting a c once at the four year school. I’m certainly not talking about grade inflation. He doesn’t want all kids just getting As. He wants to be among kids who want to get As. There’s a difference. There were only four As in his microbio course out of 35 - 45 students. He wants to have those top kids who care and can do the academics as the norm.</p>

<p>I apologize if what I’m meaning isn’t clear from the typing.</p>

31

<p>I think that you may be dealing with 2 separate issues. Most selective colleges will not accept credits before a student has matriculated to college. It does not matter what grade you received or where you received it. My daughter got A’s at what is considered one of CC’s popular 4 year school, and the college where she maticulated did not take the credit. Her GC recommendation did state that she took the courses, and she submitted official transcripts with her college application.</p>

<p>This is not unusual and a totally separate issue from schools that will not allow you to transfer in credits that you took before you were a matriculated student (again, not unusual especially as the state university level).</p>

<p>When it comes to many elite schools, having taken an AP course may not be any prize at all. I remember my daughter took an AP course, got a 5 on the exam, decided nto to take credit and took the course at her college. In the end, she said that she was glad that she did because the professor covered most of the AP stuff in about the first 2 weeks of class and many AP classes to not cover a course with the depth and breadth of a college course. This is one of the reasons that it is highly receommended that students do not and at some places, cannot use AP courses to fulfill their pre-med requirements. But rest assured, if and when your son applies to grad school, especially professional school, they will have to submit all transcripts (even for college courses he took in high school).</p>

32

<p>

</p>

<p>Perhaps this part of this thread should go over to the parents forum as it doesn’t relate to financial aid…but I’ll give an opinion…my opinion.</p>

<p>I think many, if not most students “want to get A’s”. In courses like microbiology, your son will likely find a “self selecting” group of students who are interested in the subject matter and who want to learn and do well in the class. I don’t think this is an exclusive for the more competitive colleges…I believe it happens everywhere.</p>

<p>And so what if the ALL get A’s (agree this could indicate grade inflation…but it mighty not) if they ALL are interested in the subject matter, and strive to do well. </p>

<p>Now back to the question about cc credits. DD’s college would not accept CC credits towards courses required in her major…period…she had to take those AT the college. Her college also did NOT allow students to transfer credits from ANY OTHER COLLEGE once the student matriculated.</p>

<p>Did this make her college a “better and more competitive” place? I doubt it…but that was their policy.</p>

33

<p>*I think many, if not most students “want to get A’s”. In courses like microbiology, your son will likely find a “self selecting” group of students who are interested in the subject matter and who want to learn and do well in the class. I don’t think this is an exclusive for the more competitive colleges…I believe it happens everywhere.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>This is very true and speaks to what I mentioned earlier. Once someone is in their major, especially a challenging one, the classmates are a special group who love the subject and are driven to do well in it. Any flaky kids who initially had an interest are long gone. lol</p>

<p>My son just graduated with a degree in math. Certainly those who major in math are smart and want As…although some won’t always get As. You can’t complete the program if you’re some lazy dimwit. </p>

<p>*Now back to the question about cc credits. DD’s college would not accept CC credits towards courses required in her major…period…she had to take those AT the college. Her college also did NOT allow students to transfer credits from ANY OTHER COLLEGE once the student matriculated.</p>

<p>Did this make her college a “better and more competitive” place? I doubt it…but that was their policy. *</p>

<p>Yes…some schools have that policy to ensure that their own classes remain full. They don’t want kids avoiding certain profs’ and taking the course elsewhere (even if the other school is a better school). </p>

<p>My kids went to a Catholic high school. It would not allow kids to take summer classes at the publics and then use those credits at the high school. They had that rule so that their enrollment numbers in their own classes would remain stable. </p>

<p>Sybbie…</p>

<p>*I think that you may be dealing with 2 separate issues. Most selective colleges will not accept credits before a student has matriculated to college. It does not matter what grade you received or where you received it. My daughter got A’s at what is considered one of CC’s popular 4 year school, and the college where she maticulated did not take the credit. Her GC recommendation did state that she took the courses, and she submitted official transcripts with her college application.</p>

<p>This is not unusual and a totally separate issue from schools that will not allow you to transfer in credits that you took before you were a matriculated student (again, not unusual especially as the state university level).</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Did you mean to write something different in the first para? Did you mean to write…</p>

<p>Most selective colleges will not accept credits AFTER a student has matriculated to college.</p>

<p>If so, that’s not unusual…again, schools do that to make sure that their own profs’ classes are full. </p>

<p>The point here is that most schools - even awesome ones - will accept CC credits taken for dual enrollment. My sister’s 2 boys are both at top schools - both schools accepted their CC dual enrollment credits. No problem. However, neither school was great with AP credits. </p>

<p>There is no reason to think less of a school just because it will accept CC credits taken while dual-enrolled in high school or taken as a transfer student. To do so, would mean thinking less of schools like Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford, and many, many others.</p>

34

<p>^^^ Yes, these two situations are exactly what I’m talking about and it certainly doesn’t seem to be the exception. It also doesn’t bother me in the least as we’ve always felt we were giving our son the best “high school” education we can. College comes later. Oldest son was able to transfer in his 3 credit cc English course (A) and has since told us if he had to take the same English credit course at his four year school that it would have been a LOT more work. He’s happy. I wonder if we should have accepted the credits. :wink: He’s not an English major, so it’s probably no big deal. I just have a hang up at wanting decent academics.</p>

<p>But yes, it’s an entirely different issue than my original request. We just got off on the tangent because I felt the need to explain one reason why middle son has told me he prefers “dream school.” His perception of what the students will be like there vs safety school may or may not be reality. If he goes, he can find out. There are other reasons too - size, emphasis on sports, etc (all “fit” reasons). The former was his “academic” reason. Academics rate the highest at the moment for this guy.</p>

<p>The last issue (AP vs cc courses) is just my venting that colleges seem to prefer AP (for admittance anyway - based on some that will give more credit for them) and where I’m at the emphasis has been on taking cc courses. I made a guidance counselor “mistake” by going with the “flow” locally albeit at a faster pace for this son. He wouldn’t have fared better if we had left him in ps here (no AP and no cc credits until senior year), but that doesn’t mean I can’t regret not having done more “homework” myself.</p>

<p>Eons ago when I went to high school I went to what they told us was the 2nd best public high school in NY (hearsay, but I’m guessing they went off Regents scores?). We regularly had kids go to top schools just as many on here relate. But, back then we were limited to 3 AP classes and only senior year. Therefore, what my local school was doing seemed reasonable. We had to get special permission for middle son to take the cc classes his junior year. I’d just been out of the loop far too much to realize high school [AP] life had changed and I’m regretting what that may have limited middle son to [due to my mistake]. He’s capable.</p>

<p>All that said, thanks for the ED vs Financial Aid answers. Due to finances, I’m thinking he’s going to have to take his chances with RD and I’ll have to put a bit of time into thinking out my counselor letter to make it factual, but not invite a pity party.</p>

<p>And, if nothing else, he’s got a decent attitude about going to his safety, so he’ll still do well. Plus, we still have a couple of colleges we might check out based on recommendations. The summer/fall is still young.</p>

35

<p>

</p>

<p>Ahem…this isn’t exclusive to math (or any other STEM) majors. My STEM major daughter did mighty well in her STEM classes and she also did well in her humanities courses…but the students who were humanities MAJORS did better…it was their area of strength and high interest…it was NOT hers.</p>

36

<p>

</p>

<p>No, I wrote just what I meant. </p>

<p>Some colleges will not allow freshmen to recieve credit(s) for courses taken in high school prior to them matriculating in their as a freshman. This was my D’s experience, when she went to school. You could get credit or placement for AP courses but you could not get credit for college courses you took prior to becoming a matirculated freshman at her school. Their policies have changed over the years and they will now allow a limited nubmer of credits (but you cannot use the credit to meet the distribution requirements toward graduation). D’s high school participated in the CUNY College Now program in addition to College Now given at some private colleges.</p>

<p>However, for example Harvard states:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yale states

</p>

<p>But, had my daughter attended SUNY or CUNY, she would have received credit for all of the college courses that she took during high school. When she applied to law school, she had to submit transcripts for every college course she took during high school.</p>

37

<p>

</p>

<p>We’re finding the exact opposite here. Maybe it’s sort of regional? The common statement we receive is “We know what is on the AP test and we can compare that same test with several students. We don’t know the quality of cc classes. Some students coming from them are, indeed, well-prepared, but many are not.”</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This is our experience at many schools considered at or near the top that we’ve checked into. Granted, no California school is on our list, so they may be different.</p>

<p>Anyway, I’m ok with it all. I agree with their point. I just wish I’d redirected this guy two years ago. It never mattered with oldest son. I am figuring out what to do with youngest (who is at our public school, but I’m doing what I can to supplement his actual education based upon what I’ve learned). Based on what he currently wants, it’s not as likely to be an issue. Middle son is the one who may very well be affected by our location and my lack of keeping up with what colleges want to see.</p>

<p>Only time will tell at this point.</p>

38

<p>

</p>

<p>Agreed. I was a Physics major myself and quite pleased with my B in my Honors English class.</p>

<p>The Microbio class middle son took was packed with students who generally were in the nursing program at the cc. More failed than got As. Actually, an A was the least common grade. It kind of makes us scared to get sick, but we’ll hope they did better in their clinicals. ;)</p>

39

<p>

This is something you need to check at each school - there’s no hard and fast rule. For example, Rice U had no problem accepting the coursework form our local U taken after D graduated high school and before matriculating at Rice. (They will accept any coursework that did not count toward high school graduation - so this cuts out many dual enrollment cases).</p>

40

<p>Applying ED also gives you a leg up in acceptance–don’t forget about that. If you know a school is good with aid (ask the FA offfice to look at your numbers, don’t be afraid to do this), and he has a top choice, it’s his best bet for admission.</p>

<p>My D got knocked out of the running when 70% of her class applied ED and the colleges took a lot of them. The system favors the wealthy, but there’s a reason Harvard is going back to ED.</p>