[Econ Ph.d] Uncertain of chances at schools

Graduate School
1

<p>Well, it's been a while since I wrote on this forum (it's changed quite a bit - it seems).</p>

<p>First, my question is directed mostly at those that have already been accepted or gone through the process of applying to econ grad schools. What is very unsettling for me at the moment is the fear that I will get rejected from every single possible school (I'm sure this might be the case for a lot of people, but basically I'm apply to about 18 of the top 20 plus UVA or College Park or maybe even Georgetown). I am not applying to any terminal master's programs. </p>

<p>Interested in: Economic History (focus East Asia), Developmental Economics, Transitional Economics, Macro/International, ...</p>

<p>These are my stats (and as deadlines are approaching soon, UCLA = Dec. 1st):
Re-entry Student
Junior College Transfer (GPA: 3.95)
UC Berkeley (UC GPA: 3.42, perhaps 3.49 or 3.48 by end of this semester)
Major: Economics, Applied Mathematics</p>

<p>Math Background:
Real Analysis (A-, fairly sure, but it's in progress)
Intermediate Probability w/Calculus (spring semester)
Linear Algebra (B,B lower, and upper division version)
Abstract Algebra (A, never been told to take this course specifically for econ programs)
Numerical Analysis (B-)
Complex Analysis (Spring Semester)
But the killer is this: B- in a introductory, lower div stats course<
Calculus - 3 semesters, all A's (but at JC level)</p>

<p>Economics Courses:All multivariate versions with matrix algebra of intermediate courses ...
Macro: A
Micro: B+
Econometrics:B+ (Another killer I'm thinking, but my econometrics professor will be a letter provider)
Adv. Micro: B+ (formal game theory)</p>

<p>It's too late to go over what grades I have gotten... </p>

<p>Research Experience:
None in Economics</p>

<p>Graduate Courses:
LSE: A 300series course - listed as "equivalent to a first year grad/senior year undergrad course</p>

<p>*GRE: *
Verbal: 540
Quantitative: 790
Analytical: 5.5</p>

<p>Letter of Recommendation:
Hoping they are solid. <em>knock on wood</em></p>

<p>With these stats in mind, what would be a good target school for me - preferably in the United States. I'm applying to almost all in the top twenty with perhaps LSE and Oxford as super-reaches. Thoughts? (I'm looking at what other schools I should apply to and consider the possibility I might very well be rejected by schools that I would want to go to). Or better yet, anybody else been in a similar predicament? What else should I be preparing for in case of the worst possible scenario?</p>

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<p>I don’t fit the profile of who you’re asking to comment but I know someone who has been assessing PhD Econ programs and after deciding to work one more year will apply next year. Your academic profile makes you look like a very long shot for the Top 10 or so programs by my understanding and having looked at some of the accepted/rejection stats and associated profiles for some of those schools.</p>

<p>For schools in the 15-20 range, insufficient data. My sense is that the curve drops off rapidly but I can’t validate that.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your feedback. I’m a bit worried as well, but I am hoping rec letters would balance out the lower gpa. Would you suggest any schools I should also be targeting? Considering my focus?</p>

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<p>I meant rather than in the top 20</p>

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<p>Sorry, I know just enough to be dangerous. Given the applicant pool, though I don’t think rec letters will overcome the GPA. Too many candidates have both great grades and great recs. Look at the applications/acceptances ratio where you can. Stanford’s is something like either 25 or 35 accepted, versus something like 700 applications…search the Econ department website and you can find the data.</p>

<p>What I would do…and this is work but it can pay off…instead of applying blind, figure out which departments line up best with your interests. Not all departments, highly ranked or not, will be interested in East Asian economic history, transitional economics, etc. </p>

<p>Do the best you can to match yourself to specialty. You can reverse engineer some of this by finding relevant papers of interest to you and seeing where those faculty teach.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>I don’t know anything about programs in economics, but I do know that most PhD programs don’t care much about the GPA unless it is low – and I don’t think a 3.4 from Berkeley by itself would disqualify the OP. The grades specific to economics (mostly B+s) may end up ruling the OP out for top 10 programs, although none of us here can predict whether that really will be the case. </p>

<p>Although excellent LORs help, they cannot overcome average grades in the field. The only thing that overcome such grades is independent research and relevant internships. Because the OP say he/she hasn’t done any research, this may end up being the “no” factor. </p>

<p>What’s important to remember is that the competition for top 10 programs is keen, and then generally (although I cannot speak specifically of this case in economics) it drops off dramatically the farther a program gets from the top. A 3.4 from Berkeley, with great LORs and GREs, might get accepted by, say, a number 20 program. Or even number 15. I think the OP should aim for those programs slightly less selective than the best but with good reputations all the same. The alternative is to wait a year and instead secure a research position with a faculty member or get a relevant outside internship to strengthen the application.</p>

<p>To the OP: I strongly recommend that you meet with your LOR writers to discuss their impressions of where you should apply. Although they will never tell you this, professors have a good sense of the application pool from their university. If grade deflation at Berkeley makes you one of the stronger applicants from your school, a prof will guide you to top programs. If you fall below the first tier of graduating seniors, then he will probably encourage you to apply to slightly less competitive programs. You need to listen and watch carefully for the prof’s cues, however, since he is unlikely to be as overt as you would like.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your feedback. My main LOR provider suggested UCSD and Northwestern, but not Berkeley-which would indicate 10-20. But, it’s been hard, I’ve been geeky</p>

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<p>Ok… I blame the last comment on my iPhone. But, it’s been hard applying while getting such mixed feedback… Especially the thought of taking another year off and reapplying…</p>

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<p>Very few graduate programs will take undergraduates from the same university. They want you to branch out – it has nothing to do with their estimation of your ability.</p>

<p>Take your prof’s lead. You probably are a good candidate for those programs.</p>

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<p>Send your apps to all of the schools.</p>

<p>You gotta be in it to win it, and I think you are in it…</p>

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<p>@Frank, thanks. Yes, definitely, i’m in it to win it – if i win it, is do what I want to do… Be poor for a few years… And, I was talking to a professor - the other LOR from the econ dept - that said, now, after applying… see which program suits your research interests more…</p>

<p>@Momwaitingfornew
Thanks. Well, my main LOR, who has said he would write the LOR, and mentioned these schools has not yet sent in the LOR to the lettering service. He’s an extremely busy professor though as he chair’s one of the economics departments, teaches more than a couple classes I believe, and is very active in the blogging community. I think its this aspect that scares me more.</p>

<p>Is it generally true that, as my other LOR provider, said that admissions committees make their decisions after the new year and that you shouldn’t be too concerned about making the application dates? I believe these two professors have been on admissions committees before.</p>

<p>It’s funny, as an applicant to at least the Ph.d programs in economics, as a student there seems very little I can do right now except to get good grades this semester. Every single program pretty much has the same application - GRE score/Grades/LORs/Statement of Purpose, which I believe goes in that order when they make decisions?</p>

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<p>or would it be more like</p>

<p>GRE score/LORs/Grades/Statement of Purpose?</p>

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<p>Often, the applications don’t go to the program’s adcom until they are complete, which means LORs have to be in on time. Many programs understand when a letter or two is late, although ideally all your materials should have arrived by the due date. Some programs are strict about these deadlines while others are more lenient, provided that the application itself is submitted on time. </p>

<p>As for ordering the importance of materials, it depends in part on the individual program. In general, expect programs to order them, from most important to least important: 1. research/experience 2. LORs 3. Grades 4. SoP and 5. GRE scores. It is true that the initial screening sometimes takes the GRE scores and GPA as most important, to filter out the weaker students, but when it comes to making final decisions, those have almost little bearing on admissions.</p>

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<p>Then, I’m concerned. </p>

<p>Hm, UCLA’s deadline is Dec. 1st and it looks like I’ll miss that school’s deadline though I’m not sure; I wish Professors weren’t so busy.</p>

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<p>My D is in exactly the same spot. None of her LOR writers have submitted their LORs for the seven deadlines on Tuesday. She filled out the applications weeks ago.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, you just have to grit your teeth and hope for the best. You cannot control that part of your application.</p>

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<p>Like TheDad, I am also someone who doesn’t know a whole lot. But I would say a 3.4 from UC Berkeley is nothing to sneeze at. You have a chance at some of the top 20 you mentioned. </p>

<p>As far as LOR writers, what my son says is, they (the LOR writers) are usually reminded via email from the University you are applying to. They will probably do the right thing. I can’t imagine why a professor would ruin someone’s chances just like that…through laziness or whatever…at least I hope not!</p>

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<p>Yeah, I guess the hardest part of this is waiting…LORs are the bread and butter of these apps it seems…</p>

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<p>@mom, what field is your daughter looking at?</p>

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<p>Neuroscience.</p>

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<p>@mom … any luck yet? </p>

<p>i received one of the LoRs today and I actually walked with him as he dropped off LoRs to the lettering service. My main LoR provider said it’s in progress…</p>