So I am a junior at Claremont McKenna College pursuing the 3-2 Engineering Program (one spends 3 years at a liberal arts college obtaining a BA in Economics and then spend 2 years at a different university to obtain an Engineering BS). I have been admitted to USC (University of Southern California) for Industrial and Systems Engineering (ISE) and am considering attending USC this fall. However, I received no financial aid. The cost of tuition for the 2 years at USC ($142,000) would be split between my parents and me, thus, giving me 70k in debt. If I stayed at Claremont for a year instead I would receive a BA in Economics and a sequence/minor in Data Science and would leave college with only 10k in debt because of Claremont’s incredible financial aid. I love math and problem solving but also desire to work with people. Because of this, I don’t intend on working in manufacturing and lean towards business oriented jobs rather than pure technical jobs. Is getting the ISE degree from USC worth the money? I heard Economics/ Data Science is similar to ISE but I don’t know if the similarities are worth abandoning engineering school. Can I get comparable business/tech jobs with an Economics/ Data Science degree rather than an ISE degree? I don’t want to regret not going to engineering school, but saving the money is very appealing. My fields of interest include Product/Project Management, Consulting, Operations Management, Financial Analysis, Data Analytics and potentially Human Resources. I’m unsure what fields of work ISE graduates usually go into so any insight on that is welcome.
Just graduate with a BA in Economics. If you are pursuing business, an economics degree from CMC will be very highly regarded. No degree is honestly worth paying $142,000 in my opinion.
Can you do opposite? Major in Data Science and minor Economics? That would be more valuable.
I don’t think going to USC is worth the extra cost.
@520520 Is USC your only option for the Industrial/Systems Engineering side? It seems a shame if that is your interest not to pursue it, but I would not spend that kind of money unless it didn’t hurt your bank account.
I imagine you’ve talked to the CMC folks about other options. But even just doing the math, for 1 year more than a 3-2 program you could get a masters for the same or considerably less money. That said now is the time to make a move if you really want an ABET/BS. It’s a tricky spot. Depends on whether the accredited eng. degree is important to your eventual goals (sounds like it might not be, but that is the important question.)
@CaliDad2020: How many companies who hire IE majors actually care if someone has an ABET degree for that role?
I reckon hardly any.
I have no idea, but at the same time, even if it is only one, but the one is a company/job @510510 really wants, the only number that counts is one.
I am not the student, but their decision could be a bit tricky simply because moving between econ and ABET/BS in I&S ENG is not as simple as, say, Econ and Math. It could require a few years of specific courses.
Ironically, I know a couple of I&S eng students at USC. One is purely interested in business/management and would be fine without an eng degree, but likes the program. The other seems more interested in “real” engineering. But how much their career track would be altered without it, I don’t know.
I do know, however, that if there is some specific career track that 510510 is excited about that requires or prioritizes a BS in Eng, they should think long and hard about the decision.
On the other hand, if they are really just planning on going into the careers they list, almost all will be nearly as easily entered with an Econ or similar BA.
@blossom - can you weigh in?
I’d stick with the BA Economics + data science, perhaps taking more electives for the data science side. Can you do that?
In any case no usc is not worth 70k in debt - you could graduate then get a Master’s in ise for less later in if you still wanted to…
@CaliDad2020 I have a lot of math classes under my belt. I have finished the calculus sequence, linear algebra, differential equations, and stochastic methods in operations research. With this being said, would I potentially be able to get obtain a master’s degree in industrial and systems engineering after graduation in about a year/year and a half?
My other options for ISE school are Washington University in St.Louis (Pros: Great financial aid, great reputation. Cons: I want to work in California to be closer to home so moving out to the Midwest is not ideal, the engineering program is much more technical whereas USC’s program is more business based, still costs $60,000 for two years of school.) and the University of San Diego (Pros: I want to work in San Diego so USD provides a great network. Cons: Engineering program lacks reputation and costs $80,000 for two years of school.)
“I do know, however, that if there is some specific career track that 510510 is excited about that requires or prioritizes a BS in Eng, they should think long and hard about the decision.” In response to this, I researched typical ISE career paths. The search brought these titles up: Systems Analyst, Operations Engineer, Risk Advisor, Consultant, Logistics Engineer, Program Analyst, Business Analyst, Process Control Analyst, Process Integration Specialist, Operations Research Analyst, Industrial Engineer, Sales Engineer, Manufacturing Supervisor, IT Specialist, Corporate Value Consultant, SAP Consultant, Financial Modeling Specialist, Associate Engineer, Management Trainee, Continuous Improvement Engineer, and Data Modeler. These roles interest me but I have no idea whether or not I would enjoy these jobs or if an ISE degree is really necessary. If I don’t obtain the BS degree will I miss out great opportunities? Additionally, hospitals are turning to ISE majors for optimization. Working for a hospital in this sense really appeals to me because I feel like my work will have a greater purpose. But would I be able to pursue this goal without the BS degree?
I apologize for all the information and questions but I truly appreciate the help. I guess my main question enveloping all this is if the expensive engineering major is worth the potential opportunities for learning and different career options. But based on what others have said in this thread, it seems that if I don’t intend on going into manufacturing then I should drop the engineering degree and stay in Claremont? Let me know what you think.
@bahter Thank you for the advice but unfortunately, I can’t. I would essentially be graduating Claremont with the Economics BA and an understanding of Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, Stochastic Methods in Operations Research, Econometrics, Statistics, and Data Structures and Advanced Programming.
@MYOS1634 I might have time to take one more Data Science class. The classes I would be taking next year applicable to data science are econometrics, statistics, Data Structures and Advanced Programming, and potentially a Data Mining course.
What you could do is look up job listings for the jobs you may be interested in to see if they actually require an ABET-accredited industrial engineering degree, or if any relevant education (including non-ABET-accredited operations research, math, statistics, data science, etc.) meets their educational expectations.
If you really need an ABET-accredited industrial engineering degree for your career goals, you may want to look into less expensive transfer target schools. State universities in your home state may be substantially less expensive than the private schools your list. If your home state is California, CPSLO, CPP, CSUEB, SJSU, and UCB offer ABET-accredited industrial engineering.
@510510 I’ll see if my kid can ask their schoolmates what they know about those job listings and how many require ABET or BS in ENG. I personally don’t really know enough to help.
It seems to me, summarizing your posts your options are:
1 more year at CMC = BA Econ, minor Data Sciences = 10k total debt
2 more years at USC = BS I&S ENG = 70k debt (you) + 70k out of pocket for parents = 140K total
2 more years at UCSD = BS I&S ENG = 80k total (40 to you, 40 to your family?)
2 more years at WashUSTL = BS I&S ENG = 60k total (30 to you, 30 to your family?)
So, from my point of view, I can’t really help with the ABET/BS vs. Econ BA. I’ll ask around, but I don’t know the systems world well enough to opine. It does seem to be the engineering field that most leads to management jobs that don’t require Engineering degrees, but that’s just anecdotal on my part.
As far as the 3 Eng options. My kid loves - seriously loves - USC/Viterbi and I’ve been very surprised by the quality, but I would not suggest you pay 60k more to do USC than UCSD. In general Jacobs and Viterbi get students with very similar stats. You’ll find a good number of HS seniors deciding between those two schools. And if you want to end up in San Diego, you may as well do that.
WashUSTL is a bit trickier. I only know the overall rep of the school (good) but not how it’s engineering translates to CA. My instinct is for 20k, esp if your family was splitting it, I’d go with UCSD.
I’ll see if I can dig up anybody who really knows about the job titles you posted. I really don’t. I would also suggest going on some employment websites, linkedin etc. and searching a bunch of jobs, see which ones require ABET/BS in engineering. Might give you some insight.
But certainly, if you aren’t going to need the BS in Eng, do one more year at CMC. That’s ideal, if it doesn’t freeze you out of something you’re really dying to do.
I know this is not really much help, but I’m afraid the decision whether you will regret not getting an engineering degree is something only you will have an good instinct about. I can tell you I know a bunch of folks who have done great with “only” a LibArt Econ degree, so I wouldn’t be afraid of “just” graduating with that. But if you do want to do something that specifically requires an engineering degree, you would be stuck, obviously.
@CaliDad2020 Thank you for all the help! I appreciate it.
The San Diego school is actually the private University of San Diego (USD), not University California San Diego (UCSD). UCSD, unfortunately, does not have industrial and systems engineering.
It’s really great to hear that your kid loves Viterbi. I’ve only heard good things about the school from students which is why I am so torn about this decision. I’ll definitely take your advice and look around on some employment websites.
As for the Econ degree, thanks for the reassuring note. I was worried about “just” graduating with a BA but it’s great to hear that Econ majors from liberal arts schools end up doing okay.
Over the next few days, I am going to try analyzing if there are any engineering specific jobs I feel are a good fit. If so, then that might be enough to convince me to enroll in Viterbi! Thanks again.
CMC’s career center should have resources and data that show how well their econ/business/data grads do.
@510510 Sorry - read it too fast. I don’t know much about USD engineering.
Wish I could be more help. It’s not an easy decision. All 4 are perfectly good options, if money were not an issue.
I would do as much research on the job front as you can. If you don’t need an ABET/BS but find your Econ degree does not get you where you want to go, the money you’ve saved will help with grad school/MBA.
It’s really 100% about whether you need an ABET eng degree to do what you want to do.
While I don’t typically hire industrial engineers, I think you’re fine with a BA in Econ from the Claremont consortium for most analyst* roles. Your financial choices are even more stark than you’ve presented as you’ve ignored the opportunity cost of another year in school vs starting your first professional job. It’s not >= 60k minimum but more like 115k (assumption: 55k starting salary courtesy of payscale) as well as a year of accrued interest on year one at the engineering schools. Based on your interest in data science, I’d graduate, do well at your first job, save your money and do something like the following later: https://www.datasciencemasters.uw.edu.
A general observation: don’t do the extra two years just because school is more comfortable than the ambiguity of what comes next as any of the three choices is a supremely expensive bandage.
you explicitly stated you’re not interested in manufacturing. . .it *might matter more there?