<p>I'm an incoming member of the class of 2011 and I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the Economics department at Columbia. And yes, I have searched on past threads but I would like a little more depth. Ideally, I'd like to combine it with another field of study, perhaps political science or philosophy as per CC's interdisciplinary majors. I know it's a bit early to start thinking about this but I've realized that with the Core and everything, I should get an idea of what intro classes to take in the next year.</p>
<p>How competitive is it? Is it bursting with unbearable investment-banking types? Is there a lack of personal attention? How would you compare the difficulty of Economics to other CC majors, such as history or the like? Anything particularly great or not-so-great a prospective econ major should know?</p>
<p>Took a few econ classes. The core major classes (principles, int'm micro + macro, etc.) are all huge, so beware of that.</p>
<p>Econ is fairly easy to do well in for people who are good at math. If you're an analytical type, you'll have a huge advantage over the many people in the econ major who aren't that comfortable with the calculus (or even the algebra) or are more right-brained types who have trouble with some of the deeper concepts.</p>
<p>I'm not really sure you can define the econ major as "unbearable investment-banking types." People go into finance from all sorts of majors -- from history to electrical engineering -- so it's not like everyone wanting to do finance is in the econ major.</p>
<p>Econ is the largest major at columbia. You will have the greatest number of large lecture classes, outside of introductory engineering classes.</p>
<p>This is an effect of having some of the great professors of the university in the department, Jeff Sachs, Joe Stiglitz, hell even Sunil Gulati as an adjunct is pretty damn cool.</p>
<p>Intellectually, if you're trying to impress someone, an Econ major straight-up isn't the way to do it. Lots of people do Econ-Math or Econ-OR or the like, or double major, to differentiate themselves from the crowd of econ majors who don't exactly have minds that could toast bread.</p>
<p>I was applied math but I took a few econ classes out of interest (i.e. game theory), and was appalled at the pace and depth of the classes, by comparison to a good math or applied math class. And somehow the other students had to work really hard to keep up. It was like me and the five other math majors were playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers... I don't mean to sound like a prick, but the difference was obvious. Easiest A that i got in 4 years, no doubt.</p>
<p>"the people" are a very distant concern in the decision of what major to pick. there will be cool kids and tools in every class you take. pick based on enjoyment of the subject matter, and your grades will go up (increased motivation) plus you'll be happier.</p>
<p>Only just finished freshman year, but I took Intermediate Macroeconomics first semester with Xavier Sala-i-Martin (amazing guy, like, the best lecturer I've had so far). And what Denzera said seemed to happen to me too... some people I knew seemed to have to work a lot and struggled, but I guess I found most of it pretty intuitively easy. It was a nice easy A+ (saved my GPA from some other bad things)... and most of it was math based, so being good at math can only help. Though I'm sure Macro was much less math intensive than Micro.</p>
<p>If you don't mind a parent's perspective, the question I would ask you is why you want to major in economics. Do you want to be an economist? Are you really interested in the subject? Or do you think it will make you more employable or more likely to get into law school? Only the first two are valid reasons to choose the major.</p>
<p>The problem with the econ department is not the large intro courses, but the medium-sized upper division courses, and the overall lack of undergrad focus. Compare the number of gold or silver stars for econ profs in Culpa with those for profs in almost any other department. Look at the lines for office hours or advisors. You will have a much more personal experience in most other departments. If you are really passionately interested in econ, you will find a way to get some attention -- an honors thesis, taking more than one senior seminar. But you'll have to fight for it in a department that is, quite simply, overwhelmed with undergrads, many with the mistaken idea that majoring in econ is the only or best way to get into business.</p>
<p>As for the ease/difficulty of the classes, the comments here represent the experiences of SEAS students in two of the least math-intensive econ courses. I think most students find econometrics and micro (both required for the econ core) more difficult. Whether or not you major in econ though, I'm sure my S would advise you to take Gulati and Sala-i-Martin's classes. They are the two fantastic lecturers in the department.</p>
<p>Since you all have been so incredibly helpful, I'm going to respond to each one of you individually:</p>
<p>Columbia2002:
I do enjoy math and I consider myself to have some sort of natural facility at it, particularly when math involves application. When I took Calculus, I found word problems to be the easiest as well as the the most interesting. Unfortunately, I was not able to take Calc BC my senior year due to scheduling reasons so I might have a bit of catching up to do when I get to Columbia this fall. However, if I do well enough on Micro&Macro AP exams that I'm taking this Thursday, I will be able to place out of the Intro to Economics class. Thanks for clarifying that there is no certain "type" of person that enters the major! </p>
<p>Denzera:
It's interesting to hear the perspective of an applied math major concerning the difficulty of the economics major. I haven't taken an actual college math course and I'm pretty sure the APs that I've done have been spoonfeeding relative to what a real college class is like so I can only assume that you must have been used to a very rigorous pace and high level of difficulty. I've been one of those people who does have an ability for math, but it's just been a matter of my willingness to focus, as in "I can, but I just don't want to" but as I see more and more how math integrates (no pun intended) into so many aspects of our lives it has become infinitely more interesting...and one of the areas where I see this occuring is economics. I suppose my concern about what people are in the major extends from my fear of notoriously competitive premeds but I guess if I really enjoy something, then it doesn't really matter who else is in it. Thanks for the "big picture" perspective on it, that really helped me realize to focus elsewhere when deciding what I want to study.</p>
<p>Shakzar:
I'm glad to know that you had a good experience in the department. It's interesting to know that you chose to take Intermediate Macro first semester, because I was also wondering how early you should take classes in your prospective major. Your opinion definitely reinforces the general consensus that I seem to be getting from everyone else here, that you sort of have it or you don't when it comes to econ. I suppose taking a class is the only way to find out? I took AP Macro and AP Micro this year, but I'm guessing that it's hardly representative of what it's really like at the college level?</p>
<p>Sac:
I encourage a parent's perspective wholeheartedly :) I took AP Macro and AP Micro this year and it's the first introduction I've had to economics. As far as my interest in the major, I guess you could call it an intellectual curiosity more than anything. I find myself wanting to know more after I finished this year's curriculum. I don't think I would have the willigness to stick it out at a major which I truly don't enjoy...although I do know many people who are capable of doing so! I would consider studying economics personal enrichment, but I also understand that the quantitative analysis skills acquired in economics are valuable in the job marketplace. More than anything, I just don't like being clueless about something that is so fundamental to the way society works. Maybe a minor would be better for me? I don't want to close doors for myself in the international relations, public policy (where my interests are leaning towards at the moment) or the business world because I don't understand certain concepts. Thank you for making me ask myself what my true intentions are in studying econ and for providing insight as on the intimacy of the department relative to other majors.</p>
<p>I'm incoming seas'11 and I'd just like to say, don't be so quick to base your liking of Econ on the AP course in high school. I cannot emphasize enough how much of a joke that class is, both on its own and compared to higher level econ.</p>
<p>I've heard too many stories of relatively stupid people (not saying you're dumb, just giving an anecdote) who decided to major on econ because they liked the course in high school, only to get completely raped in college because REAL econ actually involves math, not just "draw a graph and see what happens" that they teach us now. According to my dad, graduate level econ has more math than physics, so that's certainly something to take into account if you plan on going that far with it.</p>
<p>Don't know if this is relevant to your decision, but iirc Columbia political science was recently ranked #1 in the world. I would just take a few courses in here and there and decide next year, rather than now.</p>
<p>I don't think higher level physics and higher level economics uses the same type of math. Grad physics usually involves a lot of DiffEq & some linear algebra (if you're doing quantum/relativity stuff). The economics that I'm familiar with tend to focus a lot more on MultivarCalc and some DiffEq. Economics is math intensive no doubt---- but it's not commensurate with the physics hell one goes through (at least at the undergrad level).</p>
<p>And that being said, I also get the impression from talking to some of my Econ-(insertdoublemajorhere) friends that at Columbia and basically anywhere else at the undergrad level... there won't be any real math beyond Multivariable Calculus-- and a good amount of freshman take that. </p>
<p>Iono, I really like math--- but it's so darn useless in and of itself. Economics offers IMO a really practical way to apply it. Of course its debatable if Economics is really a "social science" or BS but still... Take some econ classes, see if you like it. I know i definitely will based off my Ap Micro and IB Econ experiences. Plus I hear Gulati is supposedly a GODLY lecturer!</p>
<p>Shaz, you got an A+ in that class? God damn. I had one of the top-15 grades on the midterm, but all for nought as Xavier enacted his crazy grading scheme which made the midterm useless for about 95% of the class. </p>
<p>As for the econ major as a whole, I am an econ-philosophy major and can tell you that the interdiciplinary program is pretty good. In general, my econ professors have been better than the philosophy profs by a great deal, but I would recommend the econ track in some way if you want to puruse something in the field of finance. Columbia's econ department is growing as evidenced by the amount of students majoring in it.</p>
<p>Thanks for your opinion jaug1! I'm definitely going to investigate the size/attention that you get in different apartments because I'm interested in a wide range of majors and that will probably affect my decision. It's interesting that you say that about econ vs philosophy, I'm not sure why but I thought it would be the other way around. If you see this, maybe you could tell me a little about what the philosophy department is like?</p>
<p>Thanks lvilleslacker, I think that's what I really need to figure out at this point, if I can handle college level econ.I take no offense at your comment, it's just a general truth that sometimes what seems easy in high school is on a totally different level in college. I've heard the same stories of people thinking they'll give engineering a whirl immediately regretting their decision once they actually understand what it's all about.</p>
<p>Truazn8948532, I really love the combination of practical social application along with quantitative reasoning- that's definitely something that draws me to econ. I might be taking Calc 3 freshman year if I get a good review this summer....still not totally sure how to approach the whole math thing yet. I've heard the same thing about Gulati too :)</p>
<p>The thing about Columbia's philosophy department is that all the professors there are extremely knowledgable and intelligent. Unfortunately, that can translate into some pretty large egos (as evidenced by one my professors last semester) or just some weird folks in general (the other philosophy professor I had last semester).</p>
<p>Still, I have had some great experiences with some of the faculty in the department (Patricia Kitcher and Sidney Felder). It really just depends on who you get as your professor in your philosophy classes that makes or breaks them.</p>
<p>It really is a great department, though, don't get me wrong. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.</p>