ED financial aid success? Problems?

<p>Although this is a financial aid topic, it concerns parents, and I'm responding to comments I've read in this forum.</p>

<p>Before my daughter applied Early Decision (ED) this last fall to the college of her choice we combed the Internet, including this site, for information about the risks and advantages involved. We read second- and third-hand reports and warnings, but first hand reports were difficult to find. </p>

<p>Now I keep reading comments on the Parents Forum about the financial risks of applying ED. While I understand the need for caution, I'm wondering if anybody else has success stories to share. Here's ours.</p>

<p>Our daughter was very certain about the school she wanted to attend. Over the years, she had visited the campus a number of times, spoken with admissions officers, and participated in campus activities. She was sure it was the right place for her, and her father and I agreed. Her stats put her in the range of students they accept, and ED seemed like the obvious path. </p>

<p>After a little research, the question of financial aid came up. We knew she would not be able to attend this school without excellent financial aid. We did more research into the school's financial aid record, used the EFC calculators, and took a hard look at our finances. As a family, we decided she should go ahead and apply ED.</p>

<p>We knew there was a possibility we might have to negotiate with the school's financial aid office, and it ultimately might not work out. We had read, and were told at an information session, that the only way out of the ED contract was if no financial aid agreement could be reached. We also knew she might not be accepted at all, so soon after her ED application was in the mail, she began working on applications for the other schools on her list.</p>

<p>In December our daughter received her ED acceptance from Northwestern University. We had to wait another week for her financial aid offer, which arrived just before Christmas. It was a generous need-based package including a substantial grant, manageable loans and minimal work study. We'll still have a large chunk to pay, but it is just within our means if we are careful. It's going to work out, even though she doesn't qualify for federal grants.</p>

<p>In bringing up this discussion, I'm not advocating that ED is for everyone. Clearly it's not. On the other hand, I am not inclined to think it's a death trap to be avoided by absolutely everyone in need of financial aid. </p>

<p>Would anyone else care to share their ED financial aid experiences? I know people are reluctant to talk openly about financial info, but even a quick note saying your ED financial aid package was fantastic, adequate, minimal, or dismal would be useful to families facing this decision. Of course, more detailed reports with information regarding particular schools would be even more helpful.</p>

<p>I'm curious about this issue too. I can think of a few strong schools that have ED (not EA) programs, and I'm wondering if I dare encouraging any of my children to apply to any of those schools--my gut reaction is no.</p>

<p>If your child so loves the school that you as parents, and as a family are willing to do nearly anything to pay the tuition, then it is a fine way to go. But if you know that you have a set amount that you can pay, and to pay more is jeopardizing the rest of the family, and there is really no negotiating that amount, it is not advisable to apply ED. There are thousands of situations where parents whose income puts them beyond need base aid, simply cannot or will not pay what federal or college methodology considers their fair share. Also if your child is thinking about medical, law or other further education, a loan may not be the way you want to go. My niece has borrowed $160K for medical school, Thank goodness she does not have undergraduate school debts. Also if the families have some shakey situations with bad credit, a marriage that is in question, some major expenses, it may not be a good investment to put the money into a private college tuition. One young lady I worked with last year turned down Northwestern for a very nice scholarship at Vanderbilt. Her parents did not qualify for any aid, but they were willing to take out a bundle in PLUS loans to pay for her college. Her first choice school was Duke where she applied ED and was deferred, then rejected. NW was a second choice and she was accepted there, she loved the school but with two siblings in private highschool, more college coming up, and Dad's company not doing so well so that bonuses were meager this year, the offer from Vanderbilt looked mighty nice. She flew out there, and decided that that she was as happy there, and I saw the mom over the holidays who says they are barely making it even with half the cost that they were committed to pay. They were unhappy about the Duke deferral and rejection at the time, but the girl could not be happier, and to be paying an additional $20K a year or borrowing a portion of that is unimaginable as they struggle to make that second semester tuition payment. My feeling is that it is that second year, and that second child that is really tough. You are psyched and ready to do anything for that first child, first payment, but then you are living the parsiminous life when you reach that second year or second kid, and you realize that it is more difficult than planned. You cannot compare packages when you accept ED, and though things like a half tuition paid or a third of a tuition scholarship sound great, the reality of paying the remainder and taking out loans can be very painful. I know several kids whose parents are struggling to pay this second semester and are considering having their kid take off a year and work as they cannot fathom coughing up still another term's tuition in a couple of months or their child cannot register for the fall. All of us, even though we are adults are not always so realistic about these relentless payments that have to be made. I know, because I lived it, and it can be very painful. The universities tend to be heartless--no tickee, no laundry, and your kid cannot even register for a class if the bills are not current, and he can get blocked out of a course registering late. </p>

<p>EA is not a problem. You have until May to make a decision and you can compare financial offers. Some parents may find that though they are willing to pay $200K for HPY & Co, they are not so sure that they want to make that commitment for Sarah Lawrence or Skidmore, though they are fine schools. Especially if Bard is offering a half ride and there are some $10K sweetners at some other schools. THe state schools start looking awfully good too. My son could have gone free to our state school, something we did not find out until at the end of the process. One of the grants was usable only within the state which made those schools mighty attractive. THose options would never have entered our radar screen had he applied ED. I have one kid here who is planning to go to GW which is terribly expensive. He is ecstatic, but the aid package was not what the parents expected. They are terribly worried. And the danged thing is, I'd bet money that he would have gotten a nice offer from American, merit wise that would have really made things easier for the family. Or BU might have come through with some merit aid. None of this is of any issue since he has committed ED to GW a decision the family made with good intentions and determination to pay whatever it takes. Well, the cost is $50K this first year, and the aid package is about $10 with half in loans. I think the family was thinking the total cost was going to be $40K and that they would get maybe $10 in grants and borrow $10. They are going to DC to talk to the financial aid people there, but at the height of the admissions rush, and because there is no mistake or anything left out, I doubt if they get more than loans and maybe $1000 more in grants, if they are convincing. All I can say is that the kids should start a job ASAP, but the reality still has not set in. He is planning a summer abroad, spring break on the beach, a great senior year and graduate summer. And the parents are loathe to break the news that coming up with next year's tuition even with low interest loans is going to rock the family finances. </p>

<p>I know another family whose son is up for a major award at Tulane. They were luke warm on the school at first, but as they mull over the BC costs--and he is only guaranteed 3 years of housing, they qualify only for loans there, and the cost for both schools is nearly identical except for that big scholarship which is all free money, well, New Orleans is not looking so bad. Especially with some kids he knows who are going there. He is planning a visit down there, and a school that was just thrown into the mix as a safety has become a major consideration. He was deferred from his first choice ED school, and the may still be in the picture, but that $50K per year payment is beginning to loom darkly into the family picture. What is this family going to have to sacrifice, spend, and borrow to pay that amount for the next 4 years? Really more since they have 2 more kids and one is definitely not going to get merit money, and may not get into State U. He looks like small private school material to me and he is coming up in a couple of years. </p>

<p>So, no, it is not a death trap. I know families who have long made the commitment and are prepared to do so even if financial aid does not pan out. Many have only one child or maybe two, and they are willing to gear up and pay what they have to pay if financial aid or merit money does not come out the way they hope. But there are a bunch of people out there who are blithely telling themselves that it will a work out, and are sure that their bright child will get money for college, and noone is going to think that they can pull the college costs out of the hat at their income and their meagre assets. Some of them will be outraged and shocked at their EFC, and do not know that many top school do not give merit aid. Where does that leave things if they apply early decision and are now looking at a $200K bill? It's really a matter of awareness and realistic expectations and a willingness to sacrifice a lot when your child applies ED, and you are hoping for a generous financial aid package. Sometimes it is not forthcoming.</p>

<p>Nan, when I read your first post on the ED thread, I thought you were my mom. Seriously. Until you metioned Northwestern, your daughter's situation and mine were incredibly similar.</p>

<p>I applied ED. I was certain this was the school I wanted to go to, my definite first choice. I was accepted, and got a very nice financial aid package. </p>

<p>You said: "After a little research, the question of financial aid came up. We knew she would not be able to attend this school without excellent financial aid. We did more research into the school's financial aid record, used the EFC calculators, and took a hard look at our finances. As a family, we decided she should go ahead and apply ED."</p>

<p>We, too, could not have afforded my college without excellent financial aid. Scripps, where I am headed, guarantees to meet 100% of the EFC, which was an important factor in the choice to apply ED. </p>

<p>The package still leaves me with a small loan and work study. Through my job now, and through the money I earned last summer and will be earning this summer, I will pay for my own books and incidentals. My parents have a few thousand more than they expected to pay, based on what we calculated our EFC to be. So our aid is not perfect, but it is livable. </p>

<p>Still, financial aid seems like a gamble to me. Worthwhile, perhaps, but only can be judged reasonable or impossible based on individual circumstances. My other top choices, numbers 2 and 3, were in the same range of selectivity and price, and informed as we were, we could not see a significantly larger aid package coming from them. So I took my chances, based on good predictions, and I--and my parents--are happy with the results.</p>

<p>jamimom, thanks for your detailed reply. In fact, your posts were some of those we read when making the ED decision, and they were very helpful.</p>

<p>I'm just a bit concerned with your statement "...if you know that you have a set amount that you can pay, and to pay more is jeopardizing the rest of the family, and there is really no negotiating that amount, it is not advisable to apply ED." I agree that it would not be advised in the situations you went on to describe, and it's important for people to know this. However, a statement like that does not allow for situations like ours. </p>

<p>Our family clearly had a maximum amount we would be able to pay, but did not have the other factors you described. We knew we were not willing to mortgage our home. Values have skyrocketed where we live, and we wouldn't be able to pay it back. We were also unwilling to see our daughter saddled with crippling loans, but NU's average loan debt was acceptable. We knew our EFC according to the institutional model, and were able to come up with a reasonable guess at what NU would offer. In addition, we were told at an info session that if something went wrong and we did not get what we needed, we should contact the financial aid office, so we had supporting material written and ready to send if necessary. Fortunately that was not necessary.</p>

<p>I absolutely agree that one should not apply ED blithely, but if you've done your homework, and know where you stand in regard to a particular school, it's quite possible that it will work out. I wouldn't recommend this if your child has three or four, or even just two schools running neck and neck as favorites. But if one school stands far above all others for real and identifiable reasons, and that school has a guarantee to provide 100% of need, and their grant/load ratio is something you can live with, I think early decision is indeed something to consider.</p>

<p>Tanstaafl, congratulations on your acceptance and good aid package at Scripps! You and your family do sound very familar to me, and I can see why my message caught your eye. </p>

<p>Your message points out another factor I think is important here. You wanted to attend Scripps bad enough that you were willing to take on some work study to be there, and my daughter felt the same way about NU. I think this is an extremely important factor. The decision to apply ED is something the whole family needs to sign onto, and all parties need to be fully aware of what it means. It would be terrible if parents pushed a student into this choice, and equally awful if a student proceeded without the parents being completely aware of all the details.</p>

<p>tokenadult, I wouldn't just go out and look for an ED situation for my child. However, if it turns out that a student does become very attached to a certain school, for good and clear reasons, then it's something to look into. At that point, you would need to do a lot of research about the school, before making the decision.</p>

<p>I second a thank you for the detailed reply Jamimom. I never heard of ED before child#3.</p>

<p>I'm not sure if applying ED was the greatest choice for me. </p>

<p>When I found out that i was accepted to WashU, my parents and I were happy.</p>

<p>But then the financial aid letter came and stated that we did not qualify for needbased aid at this time.</p>

<p>Right now I'm pondering about whether or not to actually go to WashU. I'm a junior and unlike a senior, I can wait another year. The additional year will probably allow me to better qualify for scholarships and other opportunities. Plus I can apply to a variety of other shcools that might give me better aid.</p>

<p>sigh. I'll try my best to go, but we really do have to negotiate with the financial aid office. If nothing works out, I guess I'll have to turn away the offer of admission.</p>

<p>StarDash, do you feel you researched the school's financial aid policies and reputation as thoroughly as you could, and did your parents get involved with EFC calculations and such before you applied? Did you have a well grounded expectation of receiving need-based assistance when you applied, or were you just sort of hoping for it?</p>

<p>my parents and I did the EFC calculations and it calculated we would get around $13000 from FAFSA. Not much, but hopefully with the massive amounts of merit scholarships that WashU offers, I'll be able to get some aid from that. But that's a risky and slim chance.</p>

<p>We didn't really have time to reasearch much about the school's finacial aid policies because I found out December 17th about being able to apply to WashU and the app was due on Jan 1st. I know that I'm holding up a space for applicants who desperately want to go to washU. And since I'm a junior, we're considering that I may be able to get better offers next year. </p>

<p>We'll see..I suppose. We still have next year. And I just might be considering to go to a StateU since private U's are so expensive.</p>

<p>StarDash, I'm confused. How did you apply as a junior? Are you graduating early?</p>

<p>I don't even know how it works. CMU has an early admission program (where juniors can apply and get in senior year & get their hs diploma alongside their freshamn year). As WashU was my first choice (before hte financial stuff came out and we began thinking about the vast amount of money taht it would cost), I thought that i might be able to transfer from CMU to washU later on if I was accepted to CMU. So my mom called WashU asking about the possibility of transferring, after my SAT scores came out and we noticed that it was good. We mentioned that CMU has the program, and all of a sudden they mention that they have one too?! That was rather exciting, but it was all rather rushed and not so great. Sometimes I just ownder if colleges are after you're money ;)</p>

<p>Not all private schools are alike in the assistance they provide, but depending on income, some come close to state schools in what you end up paying. That's part of what you need to look into before applying ED, but if you're depending on financial aid, it's important no matter when you apply.</p>

<p>Nan, I do want to congratulate you and your daughter for her acceptance to her dream school and for a financial aid package that works out. It's always so wonderful when something like this works out. You did a great job researching the way the school processes financial aid, and did not have any unusual situations pop up. Unfortunately, many parents are not as skilled as you and end up in a situation where there is a true gap between what they can afford and what the school offers. Last year on these boards a young man with a user name of Evil Robot was accepted early action at Yale. He was ecstatic until he got his financial package. Yale is about as generous as they come, but ER's parents have their own small business and part of it is investing in real estate. That is also their retirement plan. Unfortunately, that is not the way Yale and FAFSA saw it, and he did not get anywhere near what that family could afford without jeopardizing their business and retirement. Fortunately, since Yale is EA and not binding ED, he was able to compare other offers and is happily at Vanderbilt today on a full ride plus. Had he applied to Princeton instead, he would have been in Valdez's shoes (a current poster who is thinking of reneging on his Princeton ED for a full ride at Texas A&M) but without the reneging option as Vanderbilt does honor Princeton's binding ED program, and I am pretty sure they would not take someone in that situation unless the ED school release him from the contract. Under the circumstances, it is doubtful Princeton would do so. </p>

<p>Many times parents do not initially fill out the FAFSA and PROFILE as carefully as they should. Careless, or just not as attentive as they should be. It is to your credit that you did such an accurate job. This is not always the case. Also sometimes things just happen that really upsets the apple cart. My friend's husband was pretty much terminated at his job, but given a lump sum payout during a crucial year for financial aid evealuation, and needed every dime of that money to start up a new business that was going to be the family's bread and butter. Payouts like that can kill you financially on the aid forms as they are doubly hit--first at the whopping income %, and then as assets at the end of the year for another 5.6%, sometimes more depending on how the business is evaluated. Small businesses can take a really big hit the way they can be evaluated. </p>

<p>None of this is an insurmountable problem if the parent and child are determined and of a single mind that it is Harvard or bust, and I do see this all of the time. You scrape and scrimp but it is well worth it because it is everyone's dream and well worth any price. But sometimes everyone is not on the same page with this. An acquaintance of mine has a stepdaughter who is bound and determined to go to school, Johnson & Wales, I think, but not sure, but in that sort of category. Well, the bottom line is young lady's father is not willing to pay for what the school costs. So the mother and girl are taking out loans and scraping to make up the difference between what the father is chipping in and the very small grant the school has given. She will be $60K in debt before she is through and few kids' employment prospects are such that they can pay this back easily, and the mother is going to really suffer with the debt she is undertaking as well. Not a good idea. </p>

<p>As I said earlier, if the family has a good idea of what the financial implications of the ED choice is, and is willing to make the sacrifices to make up any gap if financial expectations do not pan out, and if it does not hurt other members of the family, binding ED is an option that families who expect financial aid can take. But for most families, the flexiblility that EA, rolling and RD offers is a wiser choice if the money is an issue.</p>

<p>We had a positive experience with ED Fin Aid. The financial aid offer was what we had hoped for, and more than we had expected. Because the financial aid offer was important to us, I contacted the Fin Aid Director of the ED school prior to submitting the application. I made it clear that Fin Aid was important and that I needed to get an idea of what aid I might expect and asked for suggestion on calculators to use. I made contact with the Fin Aid Dir a couple of other times throughout the process. I also carefully detailed our financial picture with the submission of the forms, using the extra space allowed to detail special circumstances of extra expenses. </p>

<p>It was a roll of the dice. You have to be willing to gamble if you apply ED and have financial need.</p>

<p>Thanks, jamimom. I agree that there are pitfalls, and extreme caution should be excercised. I just couldn't sit back and not say anything when things worked out so nicely for us. </p>

<p>Regarding the experience at Princeton you mentioned, were there negotiations with their FA office after the decision was given? The Northwestern financial aid officer who spoke at our info session stressed that we should let them know if their offer is not adequate. He said only one or two students a year at most end up not being able to negotiate an agreement with them. Is this willingness to negotiate the exception? Do schools rarely offer this, or do they offer and not follow through? </p>

<p>If it is an exception, does anyone have experience with other schools like this?</p>

<p>Wow, sounds like they were very helpful momsdream! I mean, such a big school, that's a good story. Guess we should take your appraoch if we go that way with #4.</p>

<p>momsdream, that's a great example of being proactive and informed. I agree that it's a gamble, but not nearly as much a gamble as it would have been had you not covered all bases.</p>

<p>Nan, my experience has been that most negotiations fall through. As they should if things are fair and there have been no mistakes made. It is easy to correct a mistake, and if there are special circumstances, allowances may be made for them. But if the numbers are correct, and the parents are the ones who misestimated or have a fundamental difference in opinion on what they have to sacrifice to pay, there is going to be no resolution. It would not be a fair process if every squeeky wheel had to be greased. </p>

<p>In the case of Valdez, it is doubtful if any resolution is going to come, as Princeton does not give merit aid, and that is what is giving him a free ride a Texas A&M. The school are also hardly comparable. </p>

<p>I lived in Pittsburgh for a number of years, right down the street from CMU, and that is a college that is very open about negotiating aid. Yes, if you come up with a better offer from MIT or Harvard and say you would rather go to CMU, but the offer just doesn't match, they will be quick to to do a match. But I can't even keep track of the number of kids with a better deal from Pitt or Case Western that were just given a handshake and best wishes. </p>

<p>Although, I lived in Chicago, I am not familiar with NWU's financial aid procedures, and I cannot come up with anyone I know who had any monetary issues with them. But it seems to me that you are also very careful and reasonable and read the rules thoroughly so that there were few surprises for you. I do know that at every single parent session at every single college that I have visited this year, the officers speaking sounded like things worked so smoothly, but in reality, I do know in many of those schools that is not the case. I had to fight for financial aid for my niece and nephew and the experiences were not ones I care to repeat. Yes, we got everything we should have, but only through wringing the financial cloth repeatedly. There are people who do have a good experience with financial aid, but I am afraid you guys are outnumbered.</p>