<p>backhandgrip, while the student is courting the admissions rep, the parents can court the fin aid rep. We seem to be very good at helping ourchildren understand the importance of establishing a relationship with the adcom and demonstrating interest, etc...yet, many of us blindly submit the aid form and never give the Fin Aid office the time of day (until the unfavorable result comes along). I found them to be very personable and helpful. I'm not sure that the personal contact helps at all. But, it can't hurt.</p>
<p>Though I do love a success story, the problem with them is that this is not something you want to be too optimistic about it. If it works out well, than fine, all is well, life is good. When it does not work out, the results can cause alot of heartache and pain. We all love our children and want them to get what they want, and if it comes to the point where you cannot afford a college that you have been optimistically promoting all along, it really hurts. I have some friends who went through this, and it was really painful. The schools and the literature tend to be optimistic; kids are always encouraged to apply regardless of cost of the school. There are many advertisements on the $$ of merit aid, the % of kids getting some financial aid, all of the inducements are there to get one's hopes up. You really don't need to prepare for success in this area. The problem come when it does not pan out. A close friend of ours with a blended family had to tell her oldest, that they could not come up with the EFC, and they just were not in the position to take loans, and the gap was more than any student should borrow. They just cried. It was not an ED situation, but the girl had been dreaming to go away for college, and the numbers just did not work out. She was most optimistically encouraged by her GC and the parents were pretty sure things would work out. But when the numbers were actually done, there were some situations in stepdad financial picture, that led to a high EFC, and he would not pay. Was it worth a divorce? No, but the relationship was strained after that, and years later they did divorce, but that year, it just made for a very unhappy family. The young lady ended up working her way through Pitt with some parental help, and having to live at home. But she did get her education. To this day, her mother tells me that one of her biggest regrets in life was not being able to send her daughter away to one of dream schools where she was accepted. But the girl is living pretty much hand to mouth now as the job situation is tight, and if she had huge loans as well, it would be even more stressful. At least she is loan free, and she is now contemplating graduate studies, and she does not have a backlog of undergraduate loans. </p>
<p>Please do not think I am saying that it never works out and that no one should apply ED who wants financial aid. I do work for many Asian families, some of whom make very little money, sharing small apartments with other families. Their kids apply ED with the understanding if the money does not pan out through financial aid, they will get it through sweat and toil. And sometimes it does work out that way, but they are happy nontheless. It is those with the pie in the sky outlook that get kicked in the stomache when the numbers just don't work out, and they don't have the money to pay for college, don't have the credit to borrow, are already in debt to their eyebrows and with obligations up the whazoo, and a lifestyle they are unwilling to compromise. Any and all of those factors can come into play.</p>
<p>Here's the problem: with ED you really lose your ability to compare or negotiate for financial aid.</p>
<p>My son had financial aid offers from 4 private LACs, and we saw that there was considerable variation in (a) the amount of contribution expected from us and (b) the structure of the aid package (i.e., the distribution of loans, work-study, grants). With 4 offers in hand in the spring, it was very easy for us to compare -- I even put the numbers on a spread sheet and made graphs. It is very hard to predict what a college will determine to be family EFC because most private colleges use the CSS Profile in addition to to the FAFSA, and that takes into account different forms of income. </p>
<p>IF you have a kid who has their heart set on one particular college above all else, AND you have a reasonable estimate in mind as to what sort of aid you think you can expect, AND finally you have a very clear and realistic picture of what you are willing to pay.... then you can go ED, but you need to do so knowing that you may be paying a premium in the end for doing so. </p>
<p>But what you have lost is the ability to make an informed choice which takes into account overall costs. I personally am opposed to the practice because I think it is unfair to students -- it is a practice that colleges use to lock in a significant number or their applicants -- good for their own business, not so good for the consumer. Without ED, colleges would be forced to compete for applicants in a way that would be more beneficial to all -- that is, if every applicant had the right to say no until May 1st, well-endowed colleges would suddenly find ways to be even more generous with aid packages. </p>
<p>That doesn't mean I am opposed to individuals following the ED route -- that's up to the family to decide. The risk of ED is that, assuming the kid is accepted (a) you might not get adequate financial aid, or (b) you might be forced to turn down a spot that you would be able to take in the spring because of unforeseen issues (for example, kid wins a private scholarship in March). The risk of foregoing ED is that it might reduce the chances of admission in a highly competitive environment.</p>
<p>"My son had financial aid offers from 4 private LACs, and we saw that there was considerable variation in (a) the amount of contribution expected from us and (b) the structure of the aid package (i.e., the distribution of loans, work-study, grants)"</p>
<p>My oldest son, currently a college freshman, saw this with his 8 different financial aid offers. Same EFC for all 8 (all private schools), just a huge difference in offers ranging from $13,000 gap with $20,000! in loans to a full ride plus some, with $0 in loans. He took the best offer. He applied to schools he would attend regardless, he had favorites but that was secondary to finances. And his perceived obligations and responsibilities to his family.</p>
<p>Some of the financial aid offices had us fax copies of the best offer to them. All changed their offers, BUT the best offer still remained the best. It was also the first offer received, and was later re-done again with additional funds after he committed. He would have never seen any of this had he applied ED.</p>
<p>But he was not applying to the "elite" "lottery" schools either, where applying ED would increase his chances. He is of the opinion (I still haven't decided) that if they will take you ED they will take you RD. He says it is just so they get a first look, like in sports, pick the best and let the students "think" they are getting an edge. He also thinks it is a "lock", kids are gonna pay, and the schools sit back and let the money roll in. Sure the stats will say X school has 85% of kids receiving aid, loans or plus loans qualify as aid. Not the kind of aid that is preferable.</p>
<p>He is now an "authority" on the stats since his new on-campus job is to compile the stats and write up the school's decsription for college guides and answer all those surveys, and yep, USNews is one of them. He said the only time he could see a student using ED to their advantage is IF that is the only school that they will be happy in and money is NO object, they will pay full-fare. He thinks its nuts because how can just one school be acceptable??? Kids can change so much from ED deadlines to Sept of their freshman year. Keeping options open can only benefit the students.</p>
<p>Geez, I send the kid to college and he becaomes an authority on EVERYTHING. DD a senior was going to apply ED but she re-thought it and pulled her application. What drama that created on all fronts!!!</p>
<p>I think in order forthe pitfalls of ED to be avoided the family must really educate themselves and their child. And then be ready to live up to the consequesnces. But obviously, this doesn't always happen, and in my son's words "the schools count on that", that's why they defer and not reject, that's why they have waitlists! It's a win-win situation for the schools.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>There are a few thread out there where the parents are now concerned that their children who are accepted ED to Wash U at St Louis are going to have equal opportunity for the generous merit awards this school gives, that are not announced until March (?). Since the kids are "sewn" up with the commitment, no one seems to feel that the school is going to disregard this fact when awarding thiese scholarships. And for these kids to be acceped ED, you know that they are likely in the running. Interesting how that will turn out. </p>
<p>Katwkittens, I think it's great how your son managed his college apps and has become so knowledgeable in the process. It helps to have a sibling or someone the student's age giving advice, as that seems to sink in so much deeper with kids. I do feel strongly, however, that ED does give kids an edge in admissions in most cases. The first apps examined just have the advantage of being assessed with an "empty room" that increasingly is filled. Admissions officers like to admit kids. And I have clearly seen over the years that the earlier kids with sterling academic resumes, but no real hooks just do better, if their apps are in very early. By the time the process is in the end stages, the job becomes more to cull than to accept, as no process I know, goes back through the accepted stack and rejects those, so anything left is compared to what is already accepted. The first oboe player is snatched up. The 40th one gets a yawn. Just human nature. And some schools like UPenn, Columbia make it clear that ED gives the applicant an edge. Penn has already accepted nearly half its class, those seats are committed, and they have more applicants than they did in the ED round that they have to cull for the remaining seats. For the most selective schools, in particular, (not all but most), ED has a distinct advantage. And getting your stuff in early for ED is beneficial as well. But even some of the not so elite school admit they the like ED and their stats show it. I spoke to the head of admissions of an excellent Lac that is in the 40% overall accept range, and because of the unpredictable state of admissions with so many kids applying to so many schools in a shot gun approach, ED really offers a much bigger edge than she likes at her school. Her head would roll if she could not fill her class whenn there are a record number of applications, and a shortfall could well occur with the way some of these kids are applying to these free online applications that are not much trouble. Her old models of yield are shot, and ED offers one of the few sure things in admissions for her, so she told me with absolute certainty that borderline kids are very often accepted ED to her school, whereas she is equally certain that such kids would be turned down RD. Many kids are just not good at demonstrated interest, interviews or persuading any school that they love the place and want to go there. With the ED commitiment, words are not necessary, as it is the ultimate demonstration of interest.</p>
<p>What is ED and EA means? Is it something related with college admissions?</p>
<p>"But what you have lost is the ability to make an informed choice which takes into account overall costs."</p>
<p>I have to disagree with this. The ability to make the informed choice is there. Whether or not a family chooses to exercise it is another story. For us, we considered that son would probaly have gotten a full ride somewhere wonderful....maybe a few full ride offers. We made the informed decision to allow him to go for what he wanted, and pay the price. That was our informed decision. Just because we never saw the other offers doesn't mean we didn't consider their potential. Not everyone uses the financial aid package as the guide to college selection. And, of those people, not all of them are the "money is not an issue" sort.</p>
<p>Is there any doubt what Washington U will do in March? Their goal is clearly to get a committment from the RD applicants who have choices, many of them ivy choices. How can there be a question of what a school hyper concerned with their US News ranking will do with their merit funds?</p>
<p>As for the fairness of ED, is it news to anyone that wealthy folks have way more power as consumers than the rest of us? How can we expect private colleges, which are private afterall, to not play on that? As for public schools, that's where we should question the fairness of ED.</p>
<p>parentny, ED means Early Decision (applying to a college before a Nov deadline with the agreement that if you are accepted, you are obligated to attend that college and not apply to any others). EA means Early Action. It's pretty much the same as ED, but you are not bound to attend if accepted and may apply to other schools. The advantage of EA is that you have the option of stopping after the EA acceptance and not filing any more apps - or you can file more apps and weigh your options in the Spring. Many believe that ED/EA give an advantage over RD (regular decisions - the regular round). UPENN just announced that they took almost 50% of their incoming class from the ED round. If they take 19k applications per year - and 3-4k of those are ED...and ED makes up 50% of the class, that sure doesn't leave much room for the other 15-16k students to get the remaining 50% of the slots in the RD round. Thus, you can plainly see the advantage.</p>
<p>Oh wow!!! So EA and ED are giving a leg up to a kid in college admissions. That is a big advantage in applying early then! Thanks momsdream</p>
<p>Parentny, welcome to the forum. I remember responding to an inquiry of yours not so long ago. As you read here, you will see alot of abbrevations for things.</p>
<p>ED means Early Decision. A number of colleges will consider student applications early and give a decision usually by mid December (sometimes later and sometimes earlier) in return for the student signing a contract which is part of the application, stating that he will cancel all of his other applications and go that school if he is accepted. Some schools will give these students more consideration for making this commitment, since it helps them know who will be coming next year. Otherwise, they will not know until May since many kids are applying to alot of schools these days, and can only go to one. The disadvantage of doing this is that if the student needs financial aid, he cannot compare offers. He also may be at disadvantage for merit awards that are not given out until later since he is already committed, why spend the money on him? Also kids at this age change their minds at times. But this way the whole college process can be finished by Christmas break which is a big relief to many familes. You can only apply to one college ED because of the nature of the commitment.</p>
<p>EA is Early Action. These schools will accept you early, usually in a similar time frame, but there is no commitment to attend. You have untlil May 1 to make the decision. Again, this is very advantageous to the student and families, because you have some idea where you stand a few months into the process, and if you want to quit at this point you can. It also alleviates stress to have an EA acceptance , but can make life miserable if you are turned down or deferred for any of these programs. Colleges can get an idea of what the pool is like in EA, and they know that some kids will just stop right there, since this is not the most pleasurable process in the world, so it does help the college yield numbers though not as much as ED.</p>
<p>SCEA is Single Choice Early Action which Yale and Harvard are. You can only apply to one such school If the school so states. Usually you can apply to several schools that are EA, but not if any of them are SCEA. Also some schools with ED will not permit you to apply EA in combination with them whereas some do. That is where the confusion with all of this starts, and the student and parent has to read the app rules very carefully. </p>
<p>Rolling Admissions is what many state schools use. They let you know when they review you app whether you are in or not. It can be very nice because you can know by Thanksgiving that you are in UMichigan, UIndiana or such schools that are rolling and you can apply Rolling Admissions in combination with ED and SCEA. You don't always hear right a way with RA because sometimes the school makes decisions in clusters, and sometimes an application is rolled into the next group. But as a rule, you do hear early.</p>
<p>Regular Decision is getting that app in by Jan 1 usually and hearing in early April. You have until May 1 to decide. </p>
<p>There have been a number of hybrid programs complicating all of this, as well. ED2 is probably the most common. ED2 usually has an application due day around mid Dec to mid Jan with an answer in February. Like ED it is binding. THis came up to catch some kids who are rejected or deferred from ED1 , or who just couldn't get apps out by the ED deadline which is usually in early November but could be earlier. It also catches kids who start to get nervous when so many of their classmates are getting in ED and EA, and they don't know who is going to accept them. </p>
<p>Hopefully, this helps.</p>
<p>OOPS. I'm such a slow typist, somebody is already there. Nevermind.Sorry.Edit.</p>
<p>I appreciate the posters that spent time with the financial aid folks BEFORE making the decision of whether to apply ED.That would be my strategy if we had nothing but W-2 income. For those of us whose tax return's weight can only be estimated to the nearest kilo, I am having a hard time even deluding myself into thinking ED is ever going to be an option, except for the "write a check" folks-and I'm still holding out a slight hope that I'm one of them. To quote a physicist when asked about calculating a particularly slight possibilty of an event happening,"Yes,it is possible. I would estimate it's possibility as roughly the same as that of a 27 inch Sony Trinitron appearing from a black hole."</p>
<p>Who if anybody has this Single Choice Early Action (SCEA) admission's program I've read a little about and does anybody other than me think that at first glance it sounds like a really good idea? Isn't there another one that starts with SC or is that just SCED, like we are discussing here? I stay confused.</p>
<p>Jamimom: I wish my sons school which is one of the eight school in the league of Deerfield, Choate, Hotchkiss and Exeter will tell me this kind of details ever! This information is mind-boggling (or maybe my son is still being a 10th grader is still too early for him). I am learning new stuff on CC and find it very informative.</p>
<p>parentny, what I neglected to point out is that the ED/EA applicants get their decision from the school in early/mid December - less than 6 weeks after the submission of the app. Thus, they know where they stand before winter break. It has it's advantages and disadvantages (as Jamimom points out). It isn't recommended as a leg-up strategy. Rather, I think ED is a good option for students who really know where they want to go and are the sort of people who don't change their minds much and who don't agonize over or second guess their decisions. Know you child - know you financial picture - know your options and understand them completely!</p>
<p>parentny, now is the time to learn these things. I think too many parents come here at the end of 11th grade or early in 12th grade - which is too late for many. You're on the right track. Stick around - CC will blow your mind with information.</p>
<p>Momsdream my son is attending one of the elite prep school on almost full financial aid. But I find this knowledge very informative. I must show this site to my kid.</p>
<p>"Who if anybody has this Single Choice Early Action (SCEA) admission's program I've read a little about and does anybody other than me think that at first glance it sounds like a really good idea?" </p>
<p>Yale pioneered single-choice early action (SCEA), with Harvard joining in almost immediately. Now Stanford has SCEA too. I hope this trend spreads to most of the other most desirable schools.</p>
<p>If all the top schools on D's list went SCEA, my stress level would drop-probably not a lot-but it would drop. What would be the reason only 3 of the top bunch would have the program?</p>
<p>Parentny, ask whatever you want here, and there will be parents that will give you their viewpoint. Since this is a community board, you can't take all of the information as solid, but it can give you a good start in researching things, and some ideas. Many times your experience with something can be quite different. But the parents here are very knowledgeable and very willing to share experiences and give advice. I have learned a lot from here, and have shared much of my knowledge as well. I really like the parents, in particular, who post here. We do have our spats and differences in opinions at times, but I have found that even if you do not agree with the arguments, there is valuable information to be gleaned. </p>
<p>There is a poster, Chinaman, whose son is also on full financial aid at a prep school, who posts often here. His son just got into Yale early as my son did. He may be able to address a number of your concerns. As I said before, welcome.</p>
<p>C'mudge, you need another cup of coffee this morning! They don't care about yield, whether or not USNews uses it in the rankings. They know exactly how many of the SCEA kids will actually come, and HYS has the luxury of knowing they will get to fill the spots of those who go elsewhere with equally good candidates.
Putting it another way, when you start going down the food chain from HYPSM, the school starts to care more about getting their fair share of top students and full fare payers and athletes.</p>