<p>"What would be the reason only 3 of the top bunch would have the program?"</p>
<p>curmudgeon- why would the others? I don't see a particular benefit to the school to move from ED to SCEA. Clearly, if a school can lock you in, that's a big advanatge to them. I owuld imagine that a decline in early apps might do it, but that's not happening at all of the schools. At some schools, ED apps are on the rise. What message does that send?</p>
<p>I think I might need more coffee.....I don't see any mention of yield.</p>
<p>Sorry, Momsdream, I was thinking as typing. HYS don't really care how many of the SCEA students actually come, because A) The number is probably very consistent year to year and B) More importantly, they will receive RD applications from more than enough equally qualified students to fill the slots of the SCEA applicants who do choose to go elsewhere - those are the reasons HYS can blithefully change. The other schools don't because of the reasons you mentioned, there is no particular benefit to them, and there is a downside, especially if they switch over one by one, they then would be at a disadvantage to their rival schools in admitting highly desireable students (and it would probably in the long run cost them more aid money, a bidding war if you will).</p>
<p>The top schools are moving to SCEA mainly because of deserved criticism about the elitism of ED. Since you are giving up looking at financial offers, it is not wise to apply ED if you need financial aid. It can compromise merit award and you are making a commitiment without knowing your other options. But notice that these schools remain single choice so that your student cannot apply to another like school early. That yield still looms large in these college's considerations even though they are at the top of the hierarchy and you would think they of all schools do not need to worry about those things.</p>
<p>My son applied SCEA after discarding the ED option for a variety of reasons. Really not ready to commit. But in going SCEA, he had to give up on some EA options at some schools where he really had a better chance of getting in. We really thought that Yale was truly a lottery ticket, and in my book he would have been better off with a few solid EAs in his pocket. This was mitagated somewhat by the fact that he did have some Rolling schools on his list, but if he were going strictly academic, instead of the audition route in many of his schools, I would have preferred some EA schools like Tulane, BC, Miami on his list over one SCEA. </p>
<p>I just wish there was more consistency in the process. You have to practically be an attorney to read and understand these rules. I used to read IRS codes and section all of the time, and do a lot of college app work, and I still had to read every single app very, very carefully. Princeton is a single choice early decision school, but if you are not careful in reading their stuff, it is easy to think you can throw some EA apps in the basket along with an ED to them. They do not make this stuff easy. The only clear rule is the binding agreement for ED which generally has to be signed by the counselor, student and sometimes the parent. But you know, with these on-line apps, this has even gotten so it can be misunderstood, especially when all it requires is the student's online signature.</p>
<p>Good point Jamimom - If I recall correctly, only my son's signature was required for his ED app. I thought that was odd, considering who would be paying the bill.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, I also want to add that it was an awfully bleak and then frenzied holiday season for some of my son's friends who were either turned down or deferred from their SCEA school. Yes, they should have known that the odds were not good. But it is tough when a bunch of your classmates are celebrating some good news and your single choice was a "nyet". The young man who did not get into UVA did get into Tulane and BC which did mitagate the pain quite a bit. In fact, he is really psyched about the merit awards at Tulane, and is planning a visit down there. His mother is so happy that he is not down in the dumps unlike some other kids I know who are sitting without an alternative. That is the downside of SCEA. Those schools are tough to get the admit, and it really puts a downer in the process pretty early on. When you are in an environment where many kids apply and know early it can increase the stress level.</p>
<p>Jamimom, couldn't you let me look through the rose -colored glasses for a bit longer? LOL. I knew it was too good to be true. O.K. Back to the drawing board. We can set up a system, SCRA...P. Single choice rolling admission program. Or how about SCRAM, single choice rolling admission method? SCRAP or SCRAM. Whattya think-catchy?</p>
<p>In the case of the colleges for both of my kids, I have observed that merit awards were given to ED applicants although they had already committed themselves to atttend. I cannot speak for need-based awards, however. Our family's income is such that we do not qualify for financial aid for our kids (two professional incomes), although I would not say we are rich by any means. Because of this, we saw no disadvantage to my daughter's applying ED to Kenyon, as this was the school she hoped to attend and an ED acceptance would remove a lot of the stress of submitting additional applications, interviewing at the other schools, and waiting until April to hear. She received a nice merit award from Kenyon. I assume this was based on her overall application - including recommendations, interview, essays, activities, as well as GPA and SATs. Kenyon states that they give merit scholarships to the top 20% of admitted applicants. My daughters SATs are slightly below their upper 25th percentile and her class rank is slightly below their upper 20th percentile, so she is borderline, at best for the stated criteria. So in the case of Kenyon, it appears that they do not deny students awards they qualify for simply because they apply ED.
In the second case, my son is a junior at Stanford, which does not give merit scholarships. When he was admitted, he was named a President's Scholar which was a grant to do independent research to be used before the junior year (They no longer give these - the program has been discontinued). The stated purpose of this program was to encourage the best academic admits to choose Stanford over other schools. However, I met quite a few Stanford President's Scholars who were ED admits (Stanford was ED, not EA, at that time), so it appears that Stanford also gave the awards to deserving ED admits who had already committed to attend.</p>
<p>I guess colleges have two trains of thought:</p>
<p>1) ED applicants are bound to attend regardless of aid, so who let's save the merit money for the RD applicants to entice them away from the Ivies (WashU).</p>
<p>2) Let's reward the well-qualified ED applicants with merit awards to thank them for putting our school #1 and make them feel even better about choosing us (Kenyon, Tulane).</p>
<p>Boston University specifically states that priority consideration for merit awards is given to ED applicants. We were hoping for this, as we don't qualify for need-based aid, and half-tuition is a nice chunk of change. More than that, S has become BU's biggest ambassador. He's so in love with the school that he's thinking about working in admissions in summer 2006 giving tours!</p>
<p>Kinhasa, I don't know if Wash U does save the merit money for RD candidates. Just lurked on a thread where some parents were worrying about it. Maybe they do not. I had heard that Emory Scholars do not differentiate whether the student is ED or RD. The only way to get any indication is to ask what the % of kids from the prior year are ED kids that are getting these awards. If it is proportionally, significantly less, than you can surmise that the chances of your ED kid getting these scholarships is not so good.</p>
<p>One note on the SCEA v ED:
My DD applied SCEA to Stanford, would not have applied ED, as there was too much to learn about other options and Stanford had not come up for us until September, so we were not ready to commit, but I think, if she'd gotten in, she would have gone there with any sort of decent aid package. She fit their profile and she had a pretty decent "hook" with a national level sport experience and the Stanford coach showing interest. For her, it would be in an area that used to be home, near old friends & family, have a good program in her sport and not be too huge, that could work well for her and we were thinking she'd end up there, if admitted.</p>
<p>She did not get in and it is great to know that now, as it makes us all look at every other school differently. We had every reason to believe she was a strong candidate, including private secondary school counselor saying she was the strongest candidate in 20+ years, but she did not get in.</p>
<p>If we were waiting until April to know this, we would not be looking with the same vigor at the other schools, we would blithely believe every one, though harboring doubts, and simply not considering the other schools, as it was, we went ahead and submitted two additional applications after the denial in hopes of having more options in April, but everything we look at is prefaced with IF you get in.</p>
<p>I would advise every one to have a rolling safety (Admitted in October with merit $) where you could be happy; it just feels good to know you are in somewhere. Then apply SCEA or EA, and have your other options ready to submit once you know whether you were admitted EA.</p>
<p>I agree, Somemom. I am working with a couple of kids right now for whom EA was a wake up call. It was a good thing, because they had the chance to go over all of their choices and apply to several more schools that would not have made the list if they had not gotten this early rejection.</p>
<p>mm my parents <em>are</em> extremely worried about how my ED factor is goign to play in my role of getting those merit scholarships. I do have a chance of getting those scholarships, but there is a chance that they <em>will</em> definitely use those scholarships for RD who are ivy league standard. Sigh, I really hope that won't play such a large role and that everyone is given equal opportunities.</p>
<p>Back to the salt mine for me. Not only do I need to find safeties with merit aid, now I need to find safeties with merit aid and rolling admissions that we will hear from in October. I am so glad I started this when I did. I would have never had a strategy for D. Would have never knew she needed one. Just apply and hope for the best. She could have been sunk. Thanks. It makes some sense to me.</p>
<p>Just for the record, here's a summary of what's been said so far, regarding my original request for personal accounts of early decision (ED) financial aid success and failure. I've added a few more points that have come up along the way through private correspondence.</p>
<p>Colleges use ED in an attempt to stabilize the number of new freshmen who enroll each year. Since many admitted students choose to attend elsewhere, schools are forced to admit more students than they can actually accommodate. To minimize their risks and avoid over- or under-populating a class, many schools offer an early decision round, in which students contractually agree to attend if admitted. While some express the belief that schools unethically use the ED process to take advantage of students, it's a real choice students face in the application process. There was some discussion of non-binding methods of early selection also in use, but this summary covers only the original question regarding ED. On topic responses to my original post seem to fall roughly into two groups. </p>
<p>One group advises strongly against ED for any student dependant on financial aid, based on the experience of people they know, have worked with, or have talked with. They warn that ED applicants have less access to financial aid, because ED schools don't see the need to woo them with good packages, and students don't have the opportunity to pursue other applications to compare offers. While most in this group qualify their objections, saying it can work in certain instances, they still feel that most people are too unaware, or are unable to gather the necessary information to make an informed decision. They cite examples of students who committed themselves by applying ED, but whose financial aid packages fell short, leaving them with costs they were not able or prepared to pay. </p>
<p>Others, who are dependant on financial aid, report excellent results applying ED, but warn that the decision should not be approached lightly. They feel the advantages of applying ED outweigh the risks in their particular situations. Chances of admission are higher in the ED round at some schools, and some applicants hope for a more thorough reading of their application when done before the intense rush of applications in the RD round (an attractive thought for homeschoolers, or anyone whose application doesn't fit the standard). They say it is extremely important to be completely informed about the ED school's record, about the family's finances, and about the student's reasons for applying ED.</p>
<p>Both merit aid and need-based aid were addressed. The jury still seems to be out regarding merit aid. Warnings are similar for merit aid as for need-based aid, although one poster reported good success with merit aid, and thought it was being used to reward ED applicants at their child's school. Regarding need-based aid, many of the same points were brought up by those warning against ED, and those reporting ED success. Here's an eleven point check-list based on input from both groups - if you are dependant on need-based financial aid you should consider whether all of the following apply to your situation:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The student has compelling, clear and long-standing reasons for strongly preferring one school above all others. You are trading your ability to shop and compare aid packages after admission, so all parties concerned need to know these reasons and fully support them.</p></li>
<li><p>The ED school's record shows they admit a significantly higher percentage of their ED applicants than their RD applicants. That is, if they admit half of all ED applicants, and only 25% of RD applicants, you could call that significant. If they admit 20% of ED applicants, and 19% of RD applicants, it's probably not worth it. If ED does not improve your admission chances, there isn't much reason to do it.</p></li>
<li><p>Your family has excellent communication between all parties, especially regarding family finances. If there is any tension or mistrust between parents about income or support, someone could be left holding the bag. Also, if a parent or parents aren't willing to disclose financial info to the student, then the student has no way of making an informed choice. </p></li>
<li><p>The ED school has an excellent record for taking care of their students - if you can't find the information, don't do it. Be sure to look at private schools with good endowments, which promise to cover 100% of student need, and then look at their grant/loan/work study ratios. </p></li>
<li><p>You have come up with a realistic Expected Family Contribution (EFC) for the particular ED school, and that amount is clearly in a range you are prepared to pay. Be sure your maximum range is above your EFC. Use EFC calculators and be sure you use the correct methodology (use the institutional methodology for private schools). If you have complicated income statistics due to a family business or other reasons, be extra careful that you are correctly calculating your EFC. It's probably a good idea to contact the school's financial aid office anyway, to get a feel for how helpful they are, and EFC questions give an excellent reason to do so. Just make sure you know what to expect. Some will say this not knowable, but others have put in reasonable effort and found their numbers to be dead-on.</p></li>
<li><p>The ED school has an appeal process you can use if their offer falls short of what you can pay, and you are prepared to pursue this immediately upon receipt of your offer. If you think you might not be able to write a good appeal quickly under pressure, do it ahead of time, and throw it away later if you don't need it. Know ahead of time what you are each willing and not willing to do. You don't want to have a tearful discussion about mortgaging the house, or make a panicky decision about how much student debt is reasonable. Know these things ahead of time, and talk with the financial aid office about them to see if you're on the same page. Ask how many ED applicants appealed in the year prior, and what their results were.</p></li>
<li><p>The ED school's financial aid decisions come out soon enough to allow for negotiations before the application deadlines for other schools.</p></li>
<li><p>You understand that backing out of the ED contract to attend elsewhere might result in being dropped by both schools. </p></li>
<li><p>You know your financial aid chances at other schools on your list, and your willingness to pass up these offers is genuine and reasonable.</p></li>
<li><p>You have considered the impact your ED decision might have on siblings, if there are any.</p></li>
<li><p>You are not in a hurry, and you have the time and gumption to track down and understand all the above facts and figures, and to educate yourself beyond what you read here. If you're in a hurry, or have an aversion to doing this kind of research, you might want to let it go.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Does that cover it?</p>
<p>I think we all agree that SCEA/EA is better for the student and parents than ED.
And that for all except colleges with super low yields (e.g. H &Y) ED is better for the schools.
It is also a fact that the ED parent loses the option of comparing offers.
It is almost a fact (though not proven) that the ED applicant gets a boost in admissions.
So knowing all this, what can we conclude? Not much except that its a difficult and personal choice.</p>
<p>The problem, as I see it, is not the logic here but the real life situation. The schools that are now ED are likely to remain ED. If, after exhaustive research, your childs top choices are ED schools then it doesnt make sense to try to shift their interest to an EA school just because their admissions policy is more favorable. There is risk in just about every decision, but I think the risk of not applying ED to a school that a child really desires is also great. I cant speak from personal experience, but from talking to other parents and reading some of the kids posts who were admitted ED, I believe that ED financial aid can be generous. It just doesnt seem right to me that well endowed schools would stiff their first choice kids. If they admitted them ED, they want them to be happy. They want the parents to be happy. Sure, you may get more somewhere else, but as Momsdream and Nan have pointed out at least you can go into the decision knowing the MINIMUM that you would have to pay. Yes, it is a gamble but its a gamble against the unknown, not a finite figure. What Im trying to say is that NOT applying ED is also a gamble. (In my minds eye the kids keep coming into Jamimoms room.)</p>
<p>Nan - bravo! You have done an excellent job of summarizing all the issues. I think your post should be turned into an article for all students considering ED to read. I really like the way you have so objectively summarized all the points raised.</p>
<p>Most schools tell you what you are getting when the admissions decisions is rendered in December. It's the schools that do not that I would worry about. Why on earth does a school that has your committment feel the need to make you happy months after you are resigned to going? Especially when the school is one like Washington U that is well know to play yield games? Parents need to really think it through when merit awards come later.</p>
<p>Thanks, calmom. I looked high and low for information like this when my daughter started the process. I thought if we put our heads together we'd come up with something useful.</p>
<p>momrath, your point about the sad effects of not applying ED in certain cases is an excellent addition. Thanks again for encouraging me to talk about this issue.</p>
<p>Good summary....wish I had a nice bulleted list like this a year ago...think of all the hours I spent here on CC gathering experiences and outcomes...all the books we bought...it all worked out for our family but we realized before signing the application that choosing to apply ED was the single most important decision we were going to make...</p>