The term “dream school” along with “dream house” and “dream wedding” are essentially that – relegated to the collective imagination and not at all rooted in reality. Tunnel vision focus on one school, that started in middle school no less where one can’t even have an inkling of who they will be toward the end of high school, is a big red flag and an insidious part of the college process for young people and their parents. It seems to imply… if only I get into this/that school then… I’ll be made, my parents will be proud, my friends will be awed, etc.
No school can define a student and an ivy league education is not a necessary condition to success or happiness – no matter how one defines those ideas. Keep in mind there are countless (COUNTLESS) institutions where students with you son’s stats can get an amazing education.
I can’t possibly know your situation, but no I would not deplete retirement funds for a “dream school” – because you know you’re going to need those funds definitively. Those funds will most certainly contribute to your quality of life post-retirement whereas who knows the value of an expensive ivy league education aside from published stats with regard to income earning for graduates. The possibility exists for your son not to thrive there. I know plenty of insanely smart ivy league young adults who could not find a job after graduation or had a hard time getting into business school – like multiple years of applying.
Yes. I did break out just the $5500 0f allowed Direct Student Loans out of the $27k allowed over 4 years in my earlier post, but if it’s confusing in the latter post here, my apologies. As @thumper1 makes clear, the amount the student is auto allowed is according to the schedule she has laid out with $5500 permitted freshman year., and $27k is the total over 4 years.
Oops…apologies @cptofthehouse …it was @dropbox77177 who indicated the student loan amount was $31,000 (?). It’s not…it’s $27,000. And for some students, that $4000 difference is important.
Some people question whether to do ED because they need the financial aid package to decide if they can afford it. You seem to be saying that you CAN afford it but don’t know if you WANT to afford it. Only you can make that decision If an Ivy is his first choice, and he’d take that school even if he got into another school with a big merit award, then ED to the Ivy. If not, if he’d rather go to another school with merit but would take the Ivy if no other school offered him merit, then don’t ED. ED is only if you don’t want to compare offers.
@thumper1 , that’s ok. You laid it as clearly as possible
OP, there are some talks with your son that you have delayed for too long. Lay out the family finances and the ramifications and fallout of paying for his dream school.
You and the other parent have to make some hard decisions too. This is not a decision for a-teenager to make. A $300k+ decision.
Can we please kill this concept of “Ivy league of the …”. It really diminishes the brand that is the Ivy League, is a sad attempt at marketing non-Ivy League colleges and sounds, frankly desperate.
Let McGill stand on its own as a great institution of higher learning in Canada and leave the Ivy League colleges out of it.
I have heard Duke, Emory and Vanderbilt called the “Ivy League of the south” and even heard UC Berkeley called “Ivy League of the West” which is just silly and has very little in common with the mission of Harvard, Yale or Princeton.
Some of the Ivy schools have generous pockets for FA. Between $60-150,00, Harvard expects @10%. Above that, parental contribution is proportionate.
Has your son actually visited his dream school?
And I so agree with So Cal dad2002. For some, MIT, Caltech, Stanford, U Chicago, CM’s SCS would be more likely the dream schools. (To name a few)
Oh please…the Ivy League is an athletic conference that happens to have excellent, highly ranked colleges. There are plenty of other colleges that have very similar traits as the Ivies. Mentioning them in the context of “ivy of the north” or “Little Ivies” does absolutely nothing to diminish the brand that the Ivies have become…absolutely nothing.
Do you think the Ivies mind being compared to Stanford, or MIT, or Bates or Juilliard, or wherever? I seriously doubt this is an issue.
Re: McGill…that’s a fine option…but it may not ending up at the price point for this family.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Let’s move off the discussion of non-Ivy League colleges calling themselves (or being referred to as) XXX Ivys; it’s been discussed ad nauseam on other threads and is OT here.
If you can’t afford it or don’t want to pay what the calculator is telling you the college will expect, you need to tell your kiddo “no.” No one likes to make these types of decisions and you really don’t need to have a huge financial disclosure conversation in my opinion.
The best thing we did was sit down with an independent financial adviser who told us what we could actually afford. It was not anywhere close to our EFC. Don’t let your student take out more loans than federal limits. Don’t take out any loans yourself you can’t pay off easily within 5-8 years without taking into account retirement and any additional savings you might need. Do not give choices to your first born you can’t also do for younger siblings.
It’s ok to say no. There are many ways to get an affordable high quality education. Even for high stat students. My own kid was in a similar position.
I would not let him apply ED unless the number you are seeing on the NPC is very comfortable for you.
A whole lot of people in the full-pay range make the choice NOT to. I think there is added value in the private school setting, but not something that equates to the actual, real-world price differential. That is, I can see paying $40k for the private over $25K for the public – but the $80K is a big leap and that extra money could be used in ways that would be much more valuable than the qualitative differential between the elite private & public.
So figure out what you can afford – and set appropriate limits for your kid. If there are good reasons to choose private over public, then keep in mind there are also some excellent non-elite private schools that can be generous with merit aid.
Many kids who can get into HYPSM can also get a free ride at a great state flagship, so the choice becomes $80K per year versus $0, and I think that choice favors the free ride unless the family income and assets are such that $320K would not be missed too much (say less than 5-10% of accumulated assets, just to pick a range). So, I can understand many full pay families choosing the state flagship.
The choice to pay is tougher if it is between $320K versus, say, net $120-160K all in for a good state flagship (perhaps reflecting some merit for OOS); and the family is not so wealthy that they wouldn’t miss the $160K-200K differential. If we were in that situation, our personal choice would be to stretch for HYPSM and a few of the other top 20 USNWR schools (no need to go into our exact list), but certainly nothing ranked below that. Amorphous ideas about “fit” are just not that important to our family that some particular school is required; kids adjust. We would stretch and take out up to $100K in loans total, plus reduce our lifestyle to pay any differential out of current income. Besides, anyone not qualifying for aid at HYPSM-level schools has enough income to live well, even if sacrifices need to be made in the short term, and those are sacrifices we would make.
There is an easy choice for full pay families with respect to certain “cohort” scholarships at flagships (e.g. Carolina Scholars, UGA Foundation Fellows, Stamps. etc.), again unless money is no object. We couldn’t imagine turning down one of those special scholarships, which confer far more than simply monetary benefits, to be full pay even at HYPSM.
How do other upper middle class families who are full pay do it? First for many Ivy’s with super generous aid, truly full pay means “ upper class” as in top 5 percent or above. Even in that range Some take out loans or dip into retirement savings which is not a great decision in my opinion. Others like us made college savings a huge priority. We took few vacations, kept cars for long long periods of time. Limited other spending. Etc…And this plan only works for those fortunate enough to have had extra income. But if you are upper middle /upper class and don’t start planning for college when your kids are born there is little chance you can afford an Ivy unless you are a 1 percenter without loans or pulling from retirement.
“How do other upper middle class families who are full pay do it?”
I think that a lot of us just don’t do it. We set a budget for our kids and they stuck to the budget. They both found affordable options which were academically strong.
Up to now, there are still enough students willing to pay full price that the Ivy’s are filling their classes. However, decades ago at work I used to see very strong new graduates from Stanford and MIT. Now I am seeing very strong new graduates from nearby in-state public schools. I think that the high cost of education is driving more top students to the public schools.