@dla26 Middlebury and Bowdoin will have somewhat higher chances, especially in ED, than Williams or Amherst. That shouldn’t be the deciding factor but if they are all close to equal on her list… Also, the jury is still out on how much ED2 is still a statistical advantage. Most of these schools don’t publish their distinct ED1 / ED2 data. I can’t recall if Middlebury does but I believe the rest don’t. Of the schools that do publish ED2 data, it’s all over the board. I’ve never seen a school that published ED2 data where the odds are as good as ED1, but for some it’s still a distinct advantage and perhaps factoring out the recruits and legacies works out similar to ED1. Others the ED2 stats are only marginally better than RD. So I wouldn’t specifically assume you should rank the two schools with only ED1 first knowing you get a second bite at the apple with ED2 for the other two. Of course if she doesn’t get into her ED1 it still may be worth doing ED2 at another. But just know the odds may not be as good as they would have been for ED1. From the schools that do publish the ED2 data, it’s clear it’s a much, much smaller pool of applicants. Many applicants decide that if they didn’t get their ED1 choice, they are better off keeping their options open for RD. Partially factoring into this is most ED applicants who are not accepted are deferred to the RD pool, so often the student is holding out hope for an RD acceptance at their ED1 school.
@citivas The ED admit rate at Bowdoin is not much different than Williams, though you’re right about the ED2 rate complicating getting a clear picture of the situation at Bowdoin.
@dla26 If she’s set on ED, still think it makes sense to use it at a school she has actually visited.
As things stand now, I’d either make the time to visit Williams and Middlebury, or I’d ED1 at Amherst and ED2 at Bowdoin since she’s been to both schools and really likes them.
I completely understand the issue about too many days away from school. My D had to fly everywhere too, and just about every trip resulted in her having to have an unplanened extra day off from school due to cancelled flights. Many airlines only fly regional jets into the smaller airports and they are the first to get cancelled in any kind of bad weather, and taking the last flight of the day (after you’ve finished your tour) substantially increases the risk of cancellation. One question I have is whether the Haverford diversity fly-in is taking too many of your precious travel days, and whether you’d be better off spending those days elsewhere. Last comment, a couple of weeks ago someone posted on CC about issues their daughter was having getting a consortium class accepted by her college (I think Amherst). That was surprising to me because I thought any class by any of the consortium schools would be accepted.
Nope, definitely not. IDK if it was Amherst or not - I remember the thread and felt it might have been Smith or MoHo becaue Amherst has so many steps to prevent that sort of issue - but it’s possible to register for a course - say in engineering or business, or an online course - and Amherst won’t take it for credit.
https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/registrar/fivecolleges/five_college_request
It’s a bit of a moot point, since she’s already RSVPed and the ticket is bought and paid for. 
I’m not sure if this logic is sound, but I’ve read elsewhere on CC that participants in diversity fly-in programs generally have about a 90% chance of admission. Haverford is a great school, and I know she’d be happy there, so I was thinking that if by participating in the program she can essentially lock down one really great school, that will be good to have in her back pocket in case Amherst/Williams/Bowdoin/Middlebury don’t pan out. The 90% acceptance rate might be more due to correlation than causation in that her acceptance to the fly in program is a strong indication of their interest in her, whether she actually chooses to participate or not.
A bigger gray area in my mind is the Oberlin fly-in program. I’m an Oberlin alum, so I already know a lot about the school so I can advise her pretty well on whether it’d be a good fit. (Short answer: yes, she’d do fine there, but it’s probably too hippy for her.) Her stats are also pretty solidly above their 75th percentile, she’s a triple legacy (along with my brother-in-law and sister-in-law), and she’s full pay - at a time when Oberlin is kind of hurting for $. (Not to mention that I have a friend on the faculty and another friend who I believe is on the board.) So although I don’t want to sound conceited about my daughter, I’d be shocked if they rejected her. I do wonder if maybe that time could be better spent elsewhere…
@dla26 , I think you are right. If Oberlin isn’t in her top tier and time is limited, she can attend an Accepted Student event in the spring if it’s in the running then. If missing school is a challenge, you will need to use those days this fall carefully - which means to figure out where to ED.
This statement is absolutely not true. Do through the ED/RD results threads for yourself, you will find plenty of students who were invited to fly-in programs and ultimately were not admitted to the school during the ED/RD round.
I’m sure it varies by college. Amherst says half of its DIVOH students who apply (75% do) are admitted. So 50% DIVOH rate vs 12% RD. Conversely some are rejected from the diversity program but later accepted by the college.
Williams: “We bring nearly two hundred students to campus for WOW and of those students that apply, we admit 85-90% of them.” The program itself has about the same admit rate as the college -16%.
Actually it is 37.5% admit rate is only 75 % of the students who attend and apply
For Williams you do not know how many of the 200 students who visit through WOW actually apply
There is a big difference between 180 students if all 200 apply and 90 if only half apply and 45 if only 50 apply.
There is also a lot of overlap between Amherst and Williams. During the ED round you can only apply to one.
(ETA: no hate or sour grapes from me because my D was accepted at both schools during her admission cycle).
I’ve been thinking about this, and I think you’re right. She has a 3-day weekend coming up toward the end of October (right before the ED deadline!) so I’m thinking she could use that time to do an overnight stay at Williams. (She’d also like to do one at Amherst too, but they don’t have a formal program to arrange that sort of thing, and she doesn’t personally know any current Amherst students other than @glittervine who graciously took out some time to speak with her last week!)
I think what she’s going to do is prepare all of her essays and application for both Williams and Amherst before the trip. Based on her impressions formed on the trip, I think she’ll probably submit one or the other as ED1.
I’m curious why only 75% apply. I can understand a handful of students deciding that it isn’t for them, but I’d personally expect about 95% to apply. If they were interested enough in Amherst to apply to DIVOH, then that should imply that they were in the market for that category of school. I wonder if they do any kind of follow up survey to find out where people did apply and why they didn’t apply to Amherst. If they are still applying to other New England LACs but not Amherst, that would be a red flag.
On the phone call with my daughter, the AO said that about 2000 people applied, so it was a 10% admit rate.
RE: the potential overnight stay at Williams, it occurs to me that if we took a red-eye Wednesday night, she could be at the Williams campus by around 11am. She could spend the day there taking a class, going to the info session + tour, and spending the night in a dorm. We could then head out first thing in the morning on Friday, and she spend a good part of the day at Amherst including taking a class and exploring the campus. When we visited Amherst before, it was a Saturday, so classes weren’t in session, and we could only take a quick tour. We could fly back home Saturday morning, so she’d be able to spend virtually the same amount of time at Amherst as Williams. I’m liking this idea more and more. 
Re: (roughly) post 71 –
I wouldn’t call Oberlin a safety; to me it’s a match for her, probably. (you just never know… so I use “probably” a lot in here. haha)
It has quite an activist culture, though – not that Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin and Midd don’t have any activists, but they are more mainstream/balanced politically overall than Oberlin.
I totally agree! I don’t want to overestimate her chances. The only reason I was thinking she’d have a better chance than normal is because of her 3x legacy status and my relationship with some faculty and board members. Those wouldn’t count for much if she didn’t have the grades and stats to be solidly in the running, but she does.
As a proud member of the class of '92, I am fully aware. 
The most recent manifestation of this is on the FB alumni page. Without any warning to the community, the college took ownership of the page and instituted new policies re: permissible content. Several alumni likened it to a 3rd world military coup.
@dla26. My DD visited three of the four (not Midd), and she really liked one, and was ‘fine’ with the other two. I had similar feelings. So, while they are clearly all great schools, and in some sense quite similar, there are differences that will be noticeable to the kids (and us). So, I’d recommend visiting.
@dla26. My DD visited three of the four (not Midd), and she really liked one, and was just fine with the other two. I had similar feelings. So, while they are clearly all great schools, and in some sense quite similar, there are differences that will be noticeable to the kids (and us). So, I’d recommend visiting
Instead of flying back on Saturday morning, why not visit Middlebury? Its on the weekend but will still give you a feel for the campus and students.
We would love to, but one way we were able to justify the trip at all was the fact that she could be back home Saturday evening and have all day Sunday to get caught up. Fortunately, the AO from Midd (with whom she’s already spoken once on the phone) will be visiting her school a couple days before the trip, so she’ll have an opportunity to learn more about the school then.
When my son was admitted to three LACs he applied to, Williams, Amherst and Pomona, I thought the responses from each of these colleges were remarkably different and telling. For what’s it’s worth, of the three, Williams was truly impressive in the way they went about in welcoming not only my son but us parents, too. Shortly after the letter of admissions and FA package, my son received a follow-up personal letter from Williams: 1) Dean, 2) music prof, 3) music instructor, 4) biology prof, 5) student, and we parents received a letter from 6) parents of then current student attending Williams. Their FA package was not only better than the other two, but they exhibited all evidences that they had read my additional explanation (about our atypical income for that particular year) in great detail and addressed it. Why did my son receive a letter from bio and music prof’s? Because he mentioned double-majoring in them in one of his essays – which, again, told me how much care they put into reading every aspect of my son’s application and the follow-up. I was frankly blown away by such effort they demonstrated in welcoming my son, and we’re talking about just one applicant! They went about this as if my son’s a highly recruited and sought after superstar quarterback.
Pomona, on the other hand, sent us a mini decal and a mini college flag. Amherst? Nothing. No follow-ups of any kind except the official welcoming letter. Their FA package was also the worst of the three.
In the end, my son ultimately chose another college, but I always felt that sense of security as a parent that, had he chosen and gone to Williams, he’d have turned out just fine.
@TiggerDad Where did he choose to attend?