Princeton. If it hadn’t been Princeton with the most generous FA, my son would have definitely chosen Williams over all others.
Our experience with Williams was similar to @TiggerDad’s. We had unusual FA circumstances after my son’s first year and Williams took these circumstances into account when determining our FA package for that year, which I found very impressive considering my son was already a student at the school. My son also had a recent health issue that needed minor surgery. Williams arranged his various doctor visits extremely quickly and provided him with transportation to and from his appointments. They take care of their students and treat them like family.
@TiggerDad Great choice. You son got in to a lot of top-notch schools! Very impressive. I am always intrigued about the candidate with multiple acceptances to T20 colleges.
Thank you. In all honesty, I’ve never thought of my son in any exceptional way. Academically, he did okay. He graduated 6th in his IB class from an average public high school with 2 B’s, so that’s good but certainly not exceptional. His test scores were pretty good but not exceptional, either. Once he was past what I considered the “safe” score, i.e. those scores that the adcoms at top schools feel that an applicant can handle the academic rigor, that is, past 1500 in SATI and 700’s in SATII, I said stop. I think what got him into multiple admissions was his achievements in violin, having served as concertmaster in local, state and national youth orchestras and having won numerous concerto competitions. Even though he’s at Princeton, I worry whether he can handle the academic rigor when his peers are far more accomplished in that regard. Although he had no problem auditioning his way into Princeton University Orchestra and Princeton’s top chamber ensemble, so what, he still has to handle the academic rigor that Princeton is well known for with its past history of grade deflation but the practice that still lingers from what I’ve heard.
Interesting. I am hoping that my son’s musical achievements will help in admissions. You can see my thread here:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2101777-help-with-application-list-high-stats-student-p1.html
Looks like he has the requisite stats. I’m assuming that he’s going to submit the arts supplement along with his applications. A good percussionist is always in demand, so best wishes on his applications!
Thanks. Yes, he is submitting an arts supplement. Working on it with his private teacher. And reaching out to relevant music profs to introduce himself/get more info about music opportunities.
A Windows on Williams group is on campus now, and the participants are telling their freshmen buddies that they were told (by college officials) that about 90% of WOW attendees get accepted. Guessing Haverford might be similar, your child definitely should attend, because that may be a college to which she will be admitted, so she might as well see what it is like!
Ok I’m not down with that. 90 percent of the WOW kids get accepted? What about all of the qualified kids who wouldn’t be invited to WOW? S19 really does want a diverse environment for school but I think the cards are plain old stacked against a normal high stat kids from the suburbs. WOW sounds like another way in like athletes and legacies leaving those who really love the school but have no hook so end up facing a low single digit acceptance rate.
@homerdog- Yes, true. But yesterday we were talking about other kids son had met who were legacies, and this became a conversation about hooked and unhooked kids… and while there is a fair number of kids in his entry with hooks, there also is a good number of kids in his entry who had no hook whatsoever. So plenty of unhooked kids still get in every year.
Also, some of the WOW kids will apply ED or SCEA or EA to another school and never end up applying to Williams at all. The WOW applicants are super strong high stats kids, as you can see from the WOW threads. Some will pick Harvard, etc.
But some will fall in love with Williams when they visit, and that is why Williams runs the program- to bring to the campus talented kids who otherwise might not consider Williams. Same deal with the other colleges that offer diversity fly-in programs.
My daughter did attend the Haverford one and really enjoyed it. In fact, she’s considering applying to Haverford ED now! That’s one more reason for visiting Williams and Amherst in a few weeks, so she can compare and see which she likes the best.
As I mentioned in the OP, she did apply to both the Williams and Amherst diversity fly-in programs but didn’t get in either. From what I’ve gather, it appears that there are different tiers of response, though:
- Acceptance (90% chance of getting in?)
- Rejected, but offered a chance to speak with an AO and the application fee is waived (according to Williams, these people have 2x the acceptance rate compared to the average)
- Rejected, but application fee is waived
- Rejected
My daughter got accepted to 2 programs (Haverford and Oberlin), but got the 2nd best at Williams and Middlebury. She got the 3rd best response from Amherst. The rest were straight out rejections, though Vassar told her she was on the waitlist (and later rejected her) and Grinnell arranged for her to speak with a current student. Grinnell also doesn’t have an application fee to waive, so I’m not sure if they would have waived it. Bowdoin said that she simply didn’t qualify for the program because it was for students who hadn’t visited the school in the past and couldn’t afford to visit. (We visited in February, and she acknowledged in her application that she has the financial means to send her.) I suspect she may have been rejected off the bat from other diversity programs for those reasons as well as the fact that her diversity comes from being half-Japanese, which is not an URM.
Williams’s admit rate last year was 12.17%. If we take them at their word that by conducting the phone call with the AO my daughter doubled her chances, that puts her at 24%. It’s hard to say what, if any, boost she would get from applying ED, but I have to assume it’s not nothing. Maybe a few percentage points?
@dla26 At this point I think you are overthinking this. Your D needs to apply to the school she likes the best If she’s going ED. Period. If it’s Haveford, it sounds like she’d very likely get in. If it’s one of the others, her chances are still very very low just like most other applicants. Not sure doubling the acceptance rate at Williams makes you feel all that secure. It’s still a 1/4 shot and will be determined most likely by her essays, ECs, and recs and how they stack up against everyone else. No way to know.
It is great she liked Haverford! It is good to love a school that loves you back!
Good luck to her in her ED decision. These are all great options!
@dla26 Did your D make the additional visits? Reactions?
I wouldn’t assume what other hs students say about admit chances is accurate.
You know what my ED strategy would be: I’m going to learn everything I can about this college, their values, wants, opportunities, structure, curriculum, courses, location…so I can do a bang up job self matching and showing this on my app/supp.
Yes, go to any fly ins. But dont cut the timing sk close that a flight delay or anything else blows it.
@dla26 : Hoping to hear from you soon…
Oops! Ignore this post- I didn’t see the date of the original convo and it’s all happened by now! Sorry!
If she ends up loving Haverford on the fly-in, I would ED there- at least ED2. They seem to give a pretty big boost to ED (I know my D benefited from it this year). Otherwise, I think that you are already on the right track with the ED 1 and 2 plans, then the rest RD if it gets to that.
OP. All wonderful schools. Take some time on the threads for each especially around decision dates. It can be a real eye opener. I wished I had a sense of this beforehand.
Middlebury seriously rewards ed applicants. So take a hard look there if it’s a top choice.
Asian, including Japan are not considered an admissions advantage. They are generally considered over represented. However some LACs are different than others. Look at the data and the threads to track similarly situated students.
I can only say at this point in the process two years ago. We believed our d, val 4.0uw 1530 35 act sports capt and accomplished student was effectively picking her schools. Wrong.
Just be very informed and forewarned on the expectations side of things.
And there are also threads around the Fly in programs and follow up “one on ones” offers. Yes they may increase your odds but 8%to 16% are still low.
And as a parent who is full pay and college educated, three of the major admission preferences are lost to you.
All that being said. She will have somewhere wonderful to go and maybe all the schools you mention.
It’s just there are over 50000 students with an ACT of 35 or 1500 SATs out there. There are 74000 Val’s and sals. Not counting the internstional students and a bunch of great student athletes who also have spots in the process.
And there are only 48,000 seats total for every school in the USA with an acceptance rate of 30% or less. Then you minus out the athletes. The first gen and low ses preference. The development candidates and the children of staff. And the 10 percent for international students. The number is much much lower. And many of the kids with preferences are Val’s sals and high scorers. But not on the whole.
I heard some of this back then but thought it didn’t apply to us. It did.
I believe the poster’s D is going to Haverford
So sorry for not revisiting this thread! I haven’t checked in on CC for a little while…
Yes, as @wisteria100 pointed out, my daughter will be going to Haverford. She applied ED1 to Williams but was deferred. She thought about holding out for RD, but she liked Haverford equally well and the Williams deferral letter kind of indicated that a deferral is pretty much a rejection. She applied to Haverford ED2 and was admitted!
She immediately withdrew her other apps, but interestingly, Colby didn’t process that withdrawal, and she wound up getting accepted there as well. She was already committed to Haverford, but it’s kind of nice to know she would have had other good options if Haverford hadn’t worked out. 