Education Conservancy Reels in Donations for 'Beyond Ranking' Web Site

Parents Forum
1

<p>According to an article in the Chronicle of Higher Ed:</p>

<p>The free Web site promises to "be loaded with "educationally sound" information." </p>

<p>The campaign to raise $400,000 to create a prototype began two weeks ago."As of Friday, the organization had received a total of $120,000 from 10 institutions and the Great Lakes Colleges Association. Princeton and Yale Universities each sent checks for $30,000."</p>

<p>NAICU</a> - Education Conservancy Reels in Donations for 'Beyond Ranking' Web Site</p>

2

<p>Here's my usual negative comment about the tireless tirekicker. </p>

<p>It seems that College.net investment might pay off after all. For all the criticism hurled at the commercialization of college admissions by Thacker, could we take bets on how much of this website will be developed by his "benevolent" landlord?</p>

<p>The fact that Yale and Princeton are early backers is not surprising since their financial commitments represent a pittance in their marketing budgets, and provides them with a wonderful tool to control the future contents of what is SUPPPOSED to be a consumer-oriented, objective, and NEUTRAL tool. There has never been a problem finding the information published by the schools; the issue has always been about finding the information that the students NEEDED ... transparent information and statistics about admissions rules and standards. Returning to the same muddy well does not solve the issue at all as much as it diverts from the original problem. So far, the Education Conservancy has only offered a bunch of useless mumbo-jumbo. The information posted on its site is as pathetic and misguided at it was on its first day. </p>

<p>While the Education Conservancy continues to pretend it represents the interest of the students and families, its actions only show its capacity for continuing hypocrisy and that its sole interest is self preservation at ALL cost. It also confirms how much of a paid mercenary Thacker is. The only difference being that he used to come cheap, and that now the price has gone up. </p>

<p>As Winston Churchill said in a famous joke, the price of the prostitution has no importance once the character has been exposed.</p>

3

<p>Well, aptly enough, Winston Churchill, not one to ever resent criticism "even when, for the sake of emphasis, it parts for the time with reality", also said "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." </p>

<p>As for Thacker, some might have it that "He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." In the final analysis, however, it might be more appropriate to consider the possibility that "Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential." not to mention "Everyone has his day and some days last longer than others."</p>

<p>I am quite interested in what ever resources are and will be available to deal with admissions related issues since I have a high school sophomore at home anxiously awaiting PSAT results (in other words, I am taking a deep breath, repeating CC mantras while thinking, here I go again already with yet another college admissions cycle) I certainly agree that information on admissions standards and practices is out there but in these days of the accountability buzz word transparency, clarity, and accessibility are all key. So, I will try to keep an open mind as to what the proposed inter-active website will offer to educators, parents, and students alike. (Whether or not I will want to add it to my list of "user-friendly web sites" is quite another burning question). </p>

<p>I think it is important that we have been told many times that the Ivy participation in NESSE is tantamount to nil and also that: </p>

<p>
[quote]
The fight against rankings "must be led by the beneficiaries," Leon Botstein, the president of Bard College in upstate New York, wrote in a recent letter to U.S. News and to fellow college presidents, saying he would sign on to the protest if schools like Harvard, Princeton and Williams do so first. "To end a corrupt and misleading game, the winners, not the losers, have to call it quits."

[/quote]
.</p>

<p>Colleges</a> struggle against the rankings habit - USATODAY.com</p>

<p>And to quote James Thurber: "A word to the wise is not sufficient if it doesn't make sense." After all, "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."</p>

4

<p>This thread is worth reading if only for the "quotes"!! Good post xiggi and asteriskea!!</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
The fight against rankings "must be led by the beneficiaries," Leon Botstein, the president of Bard College in upstate New York, wrote....to college presidents

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And all this time on cc, somehow I thought that the beneficiaries were supposed to be prospective students and their families. Silly me!</p>

6

<p>BB, you saved me the trouble of having to underscore that precise issue. Thanks!</p>

<p>Asteriskea, I also thank you for the extensive quotations, including the one that seems to elevate my affinity to expose Thacker's hypocrisy to the level of fanaticism. I thought that being a zealot would suffice! </p>

<p>However, I hope you'll remember that I DID try to look at his group with an open mind, set aside my earlier negative opinion, and engage in a bit of wait and see as his "semnal" research would come to fruition. Unfortunately, the recent "changes" at the EC only reinforces the dangers --yes dangers-- of this group. </p>

<p>We do indeed need more information, but not more misinformation. There is plenty of that available in the form of incomplete data and airbrushed pictures in expensive brochures. The problem of Thacker is that he has built his entire agenda on the elimination of the neutral observers who have NO interest nor benefit in manipulating data and looked for support and funding from parties that have obvious objectives. </p>

<p>Switching from Churchill to Tolstoy, an interesting translation of "Master and Man" in French yields "Maitre et Serviteur." And as Dumas (and Bacon) wrote, "L'argent est un bon serviteur mais un mauvais ma</p>

7

<p>Yeah, I think Thacker first has to figure out whose ox is being gored before putting up new fences around the corral.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
Although Yale has consistently ranked as one of the top three “Best Colleges” in US News & World Report’s national rankings, the University is joining the search for an alternative assessment that it hopes will level the playing field for schools of differing reputations.</p>

<p>Over the past few months, Yale has donated $30,000 to the Education Conservancy to assist in the creation of a new college-search Web site that aims to provide an alternative to the US News & World Report Best College rankings. Dean of Undergraduate Admissions Jeff Brenzel said he hopes the new tool will provide students with more diverse data on various schools during the admissions process...</p>

<p>Robert Morse, director of data research at US News & World Report, said he thinks the goals of the Education Conservancy’s new initiative are admirable, although they may prove difficult to attain.</p>

<p>“It’s going to be pretty challenging,” Morse said. “But hopefully [the Web site] will turn into a meaningful and useful tool, and students will be attracted to it.” ...</p>

<p>One of these surveys, the National Survey of Student Engagement, asks students about their participation in extracurricular programs and activities. Relatively few colleges ask their students to participate in this survey, Morse said, and none of the universities in the Ivy League currently participate.</p>

<p>“Schools haven’t stepped up to the plate,” he said.</p>

<p>Morse said the success of the Education Conservancy’s new college-search Web site is dependent on three factors — obtaining more representative information from the colleges, differentiating the Web site from existing college-search Web sites and effectively promoting the Web site to high-school students...</p>

<p>The Education Conservancy’s Web site tentatively plans to include an interactive guidance tool, an expanded database of information about each college and a system to match students with suitable colleges.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yale</a> Daily News - Univ. donates to alternative ranking system</p>

<p>beneficiary: "An individual, institution, trustee, or estate which receives, or may become eligible to receive, benefits under a will, insurance policy, retirement plan, annuity, trust, or other contract." Sounds about right, doesn't it?</p>

9

<p>"There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures." One can only hope that this project will be the former rather than the latter.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
The Education Conservancy’s Web site tentatively plans to include an interactive guidance tool, an expanded database of information about each college and a system to match students with suitable colleges.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Doesn't that exist? Since links to commercial sites are prohibited, I won't post any. However, a five second search on google with words such as College Data or College411 would yield a few sites that JUST DO that. </p>

<p>Oh well, it isn't my money that will line the EC weasels' pockets. :D</p>

<p>PS I'm out of proverbs for the night!</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
But education, in contrast to entertainment, is an endeavor in which we - educators and the public alike - cannot afford simply to be passive consumers of the spectacle.

[/quote]
from "The Dance of Assessment and Accreditation" by Barbara D. Wright.</p>

<p>OCCRL--Office</a> of Community College Research and Leadership</p>

<p>and, from a recent NY Times article on a related subject:</p>

<p>
[quote]
“U.S. News has made the decision to basically pin its business model on rankings,” said Mark M. Edmiston, a managing director of Admedia Partners, an investment banking company. “They’ve basically...carved out this niche of being the ranker.”</p>

<p>In a capitalist society, of course, there is nothing inherently wrong with selling information for profit. As both a journalist and a journalism professor, I have to root for serious publications to succeed rather than fail. Peddling academic rankings is not peddling rumors about Britney Spears... </p>

<p>It is the formula U.S. News has perfected with its college ranking...</p>

<p>“What’s amazing,” Mr. Dyer said, “is how the average consumer knows that at 12:01 a.m. on a Friday in August, the college rankings are being released.”...</p>

<p>Eighty percent of the visitors, Mr. Dyer said, directly enter the ranking section of the Web site rather than arriving through the magazine’s home page, where they might have read something about politics or the arts. Such single-minded pursuit of data is considered desirable in the media business; the term of approval for such a coveted trove of information is a “vertical.”</p>

<p>Even in the antiquated form of print on paper, the U.S. News college ranking is a proven draw. A typical college-ranking issue, Mr. Dyer said, sells 45,000 copies on the newsstand, 50 percent more than a routine issue. In book form, U.S. News sells hundreds of thousands of copies a year of its various college guides. And every year, there is a new crop of fretful high school seniors and high-strung parents.</p>

<p>“This,” Mr. Dyer said, “is a continually renewing market.”...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Putting</a> a Curious Eye on a High School Ranking System - New York Times</p>

<p>The bet here is that as it is renewable it is also expandable and can comfortably accommodate yet another web resource - one that promises to be innovative and will bear the prestigious mark of Ivy backing.</p>

12

<p>Of course, the EC is indeed banking "on the public hunger for relevant and reliable information, and the precious opportunity to capitalize on colleges’ willingness to cooperate in this venture" in its promise to deliver a "student-friendly, interactive guidance tools based on best practices in college counseling" by January 2009: </p>

<p>
[quote]
...the public interest requires education leaders to cooperate in developing a robust, nuanced, and educationally sound web-based system of information, guidance, and interactive tools – one that puts the educational needs of students center stage and restores educational integrity to college admissions.
Key operational components of such a system include: colleges speaking collectively with authoritative advice for students; colleges publicly articulating authentic differences among institutions; and students and families exercising greater control of a process that is meant to serve students...Leaders from NAICU and NASULGC, each of which is developing a college information system for accountability purposes, pledged to cooperate in this enterprise. We are now actively seeking sufficient funding and participation from colleges
and foundations.
The web-based prototype is currently envisioned as comprehensive, free, widely accessible, and non- commercial. It will function as an educational tool for prospective college students and their families, as well high school
counselors, as they consider, compare, and select particular colleges. It will harness the willingness and expertise of the academy and other stakeholders in facilitating a student-directed, thoughtful, and educationally sound
college selection process. The site will include several unique features...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>With the image of the ox being gored firmly in mind, a description of these features, designed to "establish common education values as core precepts" can be found at:</p>

<p>HE</a> DUCATION ONSERVANCY</p>

13

<p>Thacker could save the donors a lot of money by setting up a site with deep links to the College Confidential forums. ;)</p>

14

<p>asteriskea:</p>

<p>methinks the more important segment of the pdf is:</p>

<p>
[quote]
The web-based prototype is currently envisioned as comprehensive, free, widely accessible, and non- commercial.
It will function as an educational tool for prospective college students and their families, as well high school
counselors, as they consider, compare, and select particular colleges. It will harness the willingness and expertise
of the academy and other stakeholders in facilitating a student-directed, thoughtful, and educationally sound
college selection process. The site will include several unique features, including:
• Relevant college information drawn from new and existing data describing inputs, student experiences,
and outcomes. Institutions will be encouraged to submit all available data and to develop additional data
as the range of possibilities is stretched and modified by the involvement of a greater number and variety of
colleges and universities.
• Student-friendly, interactive guidance tools based on best practices in college counseling. This component
will lead students through a set of diagnostic exercises and questions, helping students appreciate how selecting
a college is different from purchasing a product, understand their own educational preferences, receive advice
from current college students, and discover what college qualities may or may not matter to them.
• A student/college matching system that can link potential college applicants to a group of suitable
colleges. Based on student-generated priorities, groups of suitable colleges will be suggested, students will
be linked to multiple additional resources (including the suggested colleges), and information addressing a
wide range of educationally important questions will be offered.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's only my guess, but this will end up to be USNews Lite, with a more user-friendly front-end interface. I call it Lite bcos, of course, it will likely contain all the USNews objective data used today, without the PA, and probably w/o Alumni Giving, and without any ranking/comparison of who is better. And, since it will be "nuanced" (yeah, that adds more clarity and transparency), colleges will be able to add subjective vignettes about their school and majors, which might be a good thing: schools like SLC, Bard, Reed, Chicago, Bucknell, Colgate et al might include a line or two of their campus culture and departmental strengths (but not likely). </p>

<p>The real fun to watch, however, is how this effort obtains buy-in from the highly selective schools who currently refuse to publish their common data sets, or refuse to publish results of other student surveys. Will the Ed team just allow those schools to self-publish the data that they want the public to see? :rolleyes:</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
Of course, the EC is indeed banking "on the public hunger for relevant and reliable information, and the precious opportunity to capitalize on colleges’ willingness to cooperate in this venture" in its promise to deliver a "student-friendly, interactive guidance tools based on best practices in college counseling"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Asteriskea, that sentence underscores how clueless and misguided Thacker is. </p>

<p>If he were honest, he'd see how he is being played. If he were representing the interests of students (the public hunger for relevant and reliable information) he would not be cozying and brown nosing the schools for bribes (and that is what it is.) A true advocate for the students and their families would challenge the schools, not drinking their firewater. The reality is that the schools DO mean well and are really trying to find solutions. However, the first step requires recognizing that THEY are primarily responsible for a lot of the malaise. </p>

<p>A person like Thacker would earn my respect by using his platform to challenge the schools to do away with all their secrets meetings and require to open up reports such as the COFHE and similar infornation that remains unavailable to most. Why is Tacher not publicly denouncing a school such as Wellesley that keeps hiding their VERIFIABLE admission information? Why is not challenging the schools that belong to the 568 Group to open up? Why is not challenging the schools to be more forthcoming about legacy and athletic, and ethnic preferences. Some schools do; most don't!</p>

<p>Yet, what he prefers to do is meeting behind the closed mahogany doors of fancy conference centers, and consume the supporters' tea and sweet cookies, and this all the while pretending to know what is good for ... us. Well, nothing in his mediocre career as a high school counselor prepared him to be OUR spokesman. As a representative of the dying generation that decided on people's future in secrecy, he was and IS part of the problem. The same generation that poisons the ranks of the NACAC ... dinosaurs who have been left behind by the advancement of technology. </p>

<p>And lastly, even if we do not agree that rankings are "good" it remains that it IS what people want to see. Just as consumers flock to the People magazine with the 10 Most Sexy stars in America, they want to see ... rankings. That is what attracts the public! </p>

<p>At best, EC's proposal is just a gigantic waste of money. At worst, a monument to corruption!</p>

16

<p>From the Harvard Crimson: "New system would rely on descriptions, not numbers, to rate insitiutions" (their typo, not mine, for once).</p>

<p>
[quote]
“We want to support a variety of different means of information students and parents might have,” Fitzsimmons said. “The kind of information they use is publicly available, and it’s important for us to provide such information.”

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The</a> Harvard Crimson :: News :: Harvard May Endorse Alternate Rankings</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
"I hope that many schools will join Lloyd Thacker’s efforts to create an admissions process that embodies our core educational values," [Gardner] said.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>New admissions process? What's the real agenda of Thacker? How much influence does Gardner have in this at Harvard? </p>

<p>By the way, Robert Sternberg (someone who is a rival of Gardner's in certain areas of research on human intelligence) currently is running a new admission system at Tufts. He spoke about that in detail at the National Association for Gifted Children conference I attended last month in Minneapolis. </p>

<p>Any college that wants a new approach to admissions can get one. All it has to do is take the risk of getting different results (a different kind of enrolled class) from what it got last year.</p>

18

<p>Tokenadult: CC is, and, I trust, will remain a unique and invaluable resource that embodies essential core educational values easily accessible and available to parents and students alike for free- indeed the more options there are out there to wade through, the more important it is to read and think critically about all of this - to wit: Xiggi's, BB's, and your own posts on this thread. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Any college that wants a new approach to admissions can get one. All it has to do is take the risk of getting different results (a different kind of enrolled class) from what it got last year.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Of course - and on this point don't forget Swarthmore's Barry Schwartz's "The Paradox of Choice" approach to risk-taking and college admissions. I have posted a great deal about Sternberg's work on admissions at Tufts and Choate-Rosemary Hall on other threads and I also think it is well-worth taking the time to read up on his approach to best admissions practices. The Rainbow project is a valuable and laudable part of Tuft's efforts to create a distinctive brand identity. "We can establish for ourselves a niche that no other institution fills quite so well."</p>

<p>From the Tuft's website:

[quote]
In order to produce the leaders of tomorrow, we need to admit the very best students we can obtain. Such admissions require optimization of both the academic excellence and the diversity of our pool of accepted students. Our research at the PACE Center has shown that academic excellence and diversity are two sides of the same coin. By choosing students not only for their grades and scores on traditional tests, but also by looking more broadly at qualities of leadership, including creative and practical skills and attitudes as well as analytical ones, we can improve college admissions. Our data showed that, through the use of the new assessments administered to a national sample, we could double predictive validity for freshman year grades and a substantial reduction in ethnic group differences. During the 2005-2006 school year, in collaboration with Dean Coffin and the admissions staff, we piloted assessments of creative and practical skills to determine whether these measures could be used to identify gifted potential leaders. We found that the measures did indeed identify potential leaders not otherwise identified. During the '06-'07 school year, we introduced into the Tufts-specific application assessments of creative and practical thinking to supplement the more traditional assessments. We believe we can become the leading institution in the country in forward-looking admissions procedures that optimize selection for academic excellence and diversity.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Vision</a> for Arts and Sciences - Arts and Sciences - Tufts University</p>

19

<p>As a long time critic of any ranking systems, which I feel are largely bogus, I do hope the data provided in the Common Data Set would be readily available to students. This data is important to many students and they can prioritize which criteria are most important to them.</p>

20

<p>Asteriskea, setting aside our differing opinions about Thacker and the EC group, may I ask to possibly share why you are so positive about their contributions? </p>

<p>Do you think that much worthwhile has been accomplished since the unveiling of the website. Of course, I am not considering the self-promoting participation at conferences nor the meetings behind closed doors. I am looking at the information provided to the purported targeted audience.</p>

<p>So far you have been a faithful cheerleader, while I have been a relentless critic. I am wondering why we look at the same information but reach such different conclusions? I really want to give the EC the benefit of the doubt, but as a potential interested beneficiary --as a student-- what is there that does help me?</p>