Education in the US needs to be changed and reinstated value.

Parents Forum
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<p>This is not even true. GPA is a meaningless figure without lots and lots of context. There are plenty of high schools in America where you can earn a 3.25 just by showing up and breathing. And then there are schools, like Cobrat’s above, where the curriculum and competition are very, very tough, and 3.25 would be a feat to achieve.</p>

<p>The problem of jobs for grads is not with the education industry. People aren’t getting jobs because of converging forces of globalization and technology. Changing the number of B.A.s awarded won’t address that issue at all.</p>

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<p>csh123-</p>

<p>In previous posts you were concerned about your ability to get into medical school based on your lower gpa 2.7-2.8. You also stated you were concerned about your possible major because you considered a “biology” degree useless. You have stated that for a year and a half of coursework you have a $16K student loan debt. And are currently on a LOA from your LAC because your parents feel your gpa is too low.</p>

<p>This thread sounds like you are frustrated with your current situation and are trying to find a way to vent. That is understandable. However rather than wasting your efforts here and and other threads maybe you would be better served attending classes at your local CC and bringing up your BPCM.</p>

<p>And yes I do have some idea how difficult it is to enter medical school and the path it takes to get there.</p>

<p>Son is now an MS1 so he just went through the rigorous application process last year. And one of the determining factors was how he presented himself through his interviews, personal statement and references. If this thread is indicative of your attitude and personality, your GPA is the least of your worries.</p>

<p>Med schools are looking for physicians, healers. Is that how you see yourself?</p>

<p>Is that how you think you are presenting yourself on this thread or other threads?</p>

<p>Maybe you should take this time and do some real soul searching. College isn’t just about academics, GPAs, SATs/MCAT scores, majors and wrangling YOUR best outcome.</p>

<p>Rather it is to push yourself to be better than you could imagine, to grow in ways that would surprise yourself and others, to learn to think of someone other than yourself in truely meaningful ways.</p>

<p>To learn to make a difference. Are you doing that?</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Park of the unemployment report released yesterday still shows that people with a college degree have an unemployment rate of 4.1% compared to the national average of around 8%. Presumably it matters not if you graduate with a 3.0 or a 4.0. It matters not if your high school GPA was a C or an A. Graduating college is still key. You may not land in your “dream college” it matters what you do with what you have in hand. We may say it’s “unfair” that the reception job requires a degree but the sheer act of finishing a degree shows that the individual has determination, work ethic and a willingness to “stick” it for 4 or more years. Not a bad measure.</p>

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<p>csh123: it seems as if every single one of your threads is meant to bash SOME kind of degree. Honestly, you sound like (and probably are) a sad you-know-what who doesnt have the ability to handle a nice degree. You think all these degrees are in some ways flawed and useless? Well, if you got one of them, I would certainly agree.</p>

<p>Have fun in the military, or flipping burger patties at McDonald’s because you just need to flip everyone and everything off.</p>

<p>I sound like a p-i-s-s-e-d off teenager? That’s because I am.</p>

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<p>For every 10 C students who are the bosses of A students, 9 of them are family members of the boss. While there are brilliant people without college degrees (Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg) its not like these people were incapable of getting A’s but rather chose not to go that path. What the original OP is saying is that by making a college degree just another “entitlement” of this generation, it has become greatly diminished in value while colleges have increased costs by over 3 times the COLA.</p>

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<p>How can college be an entitlement when only 30% of adults have a bachelor’s degree? Many more people attempt college, but far fewer finish.</p>

<p>No one has to go to college, and if someone doesn’t think it’s of value, there are other options. If college is as meaningless as the OP says, then pretty soon, employers will realize it and stop requiring a degree, or they will only accept degrees from certain schools and in certain fields. What I find odd is the rigidity of the OP’s proposals to control access to the B.A.</p>

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<p>Op I do understand what you are saying but it is not going to happen. This is America and we love our underdogs.</p>

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<p>Kat, you obviously did not read my original post. I switched majors because I don’t have a passion for biology or medicine. Im majoring in math because that’s what I’m good at and I hope to become an actuary or an accountant. Im enrolled in CC classes in order to make up for the credits I would be taking this semester.</p>

<p>I am going back to school next fall. I don’t understand why you had to bring up my past issues in this topic. Im simply suggesting an idea designed to help the American education system and looking for opinions. You’re bringing irrelevant information into this debate.</p>

<p>Yuhikojay, I’m not bashing everyone for the sake of bashing. I’m providing constructive criticism. A biology or chemistry major will only lead to trouble. I stand by a few majors and only offer real advice when it comes to people that are concerned about job prospects.</p>

<p>Engineering, economics, geology,accounting, finance, math, physics, and stats are all good majors that lead to good job security. I’m only being helpful and truthful.</p>

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<p>If this is indeed the case with the OP, it is odd he/she’s making such declarations considering his/her own academic performance. </p>

<p>I’ve heard the same rants from HS classmates and I’ve even made some myself. </p>

<p>Only differences were that we all graduated with highly respectable GPAs at the very least and our quibble wasn’t with the “deluge” of HS students with less than 3.25 HS GPAs…but with the influx of former “top honors” type HS students…even those who were vals/sals and maxed out their APs from high schools so lacking in academic rigor that one could graduate with high GPAs…even 4.0+ by merely having a pulse. </p>

<p>Some of us earned decent money acting as academic tutors for such students during our undergrad days. Well…for the ones who realized they were in over their heads and needed help to forestall academic suspension or worse…being kicked out.</p>

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<p>My gpa isn’t the best, I get it. That’s my fault and I obviously wasn’t as prepared for college. Thats why I think restrictions force others to think seriously when considering a higher education.</p>

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<p>You’re naively assuming that high schools won’t try to overcome those restrictions to protect their ‘x % of students go on to a four year college’ rate. Should your system be implemented, more schools would start giving out higher grades to meet the arbitrary GPA requirement. It seems that you want to get back at others for your own misgivings with higher education.</p>

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<p>Tell that to all the people in work in many, many, many industries and services who have bio and chemi majors. Who do you think develops polymers, cosmetics, and all the thiings you touch and put on your body? Who do you thank for clean water, and wildlife that isn’t becoming extinct and a plethora of other things in the world you walk in. It’s not just “engineers” it’s those pesky bio and chem majors. Wake up and smell the coffee…every major has VALUE to someone, somewhere. There is no holy trinity of majors that are ‘better’ than other majors --the future takes care of itself if you focus on what is under your nose. Yes, do something you are “good” at because generally that is something you “like” but don’t bash other people’s strengths on the way to your goals. That attitude generally comes back to bite you in the rear.</p>

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<p>My opinion is that in the early stages of vocational careers - eg. engineering, medicine, pharmacy, accounting…, there is a correlation to how good a student was in HS or college. How good someone is in a huge number of other fields, and in management further down the career even in the vocational areas, I feel is far less connected to scholastic achievement. </p>

<p>What I’m saying is that you can find high schoolers who you can put on a ship for four years and send them to mingle in different societies around the world for a few weeks at a time, and they would do as good a job in many positions requiring generalists as someone who got a four year degree in Greek history or physics (eg. sales/marketing). If the skill that the job needs isn’t explicitly linked to what was taught in class, and depends more on communication, interpersonal skills, etc. poor grades are not a handicap. I believe there was a former CEO of a large computer company whose formal training was in medieval history, who may very well have done as well independent of whether she had As or Cs in history or in her SATs.</p>

<p>So while I agree with OP that there should be no reason to tacitly force everyone to go for a 4-yr degree, and Votech should be given a higher standing than it is today, low GPA or scores shouldn’t automatically bar people from going to college. The flip side of it is, society shouldn’t be obligated to find higher paying jobs to those who graduate but didn’t acquire real world skills that would make their education worthwhile to an employer, and are stuck only with talent/knowledge with little demand, and can’t find a job.</p>

<p>To me the world is better served if there are variety of opinions that are available that provide the opportunity for students to follow different paths - College vs Votech, LAC vs research, STEM vs non-STEM, specific versus general, etc. The only thing is that at the end of the exercise, if things don’t work out, they shouldn’t expect to get bailed out. I don’t want to deny anyone the right to make their choice, but after they do it with their eyes wide open, they should take the responsibility for the consequences.</p>

<p>In our family we have been seemingly conservative in our choices and encouraged and discouraged our kids based on our preferences, which thus far has worked out. We certainly wouldn’t have paid for them to go on some of the tracks that our friends/neighbors supported for their kids. However, I’m glad these options were open for them.</p>

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<p>This just makes your suggestions pointless. There are hundreds of private institutions in the US. There is no reform that can affect them, at all. Even public schools cannot really be touched by any kind of educational reform, since at most they’re only answerable to the state government.</p>

<p>Your plan might be practical for a country with a single national university system, but it’s impossible in the US.</p>

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<p>Now, tell me what GPA measures. GPA measures one’s ability to conform to the educational system set place decades ago. It does not measure one’s intelligence, neither does it measure their critical thinking skills. Now, no number can fully quantify a person’s intelligence or ability; neither can it show you how successful a person is going to be in the future. How can one be barred from pursuing something in the future for not making the wisest decisions as a child? If you really expect a child of 15 to be responsible as an adult, I believe you are the ignorant one here. I am aware of consequences, but really? Basing the next 60 years of a person’s life based on the 4 years of their high school educations. How incredibly ignorant is that? I don’t have to explain that everyone develops maturity at different rates. I would like to say that I am a late bloomer. Despite my 3.18 GPA, and only having lived 18 years, I can see right through this incredibly arrogant and elitist comment about education and how it should be redefined.</p>

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<p>Wow DavidtheFat that is one of the more measured posts you’ve put forth. Nice.</p>

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<p>Csh123 let me give some advice. Don’t pick a career or major because you are good at it. I too majored in math because I was good at it and find myself miserable 28 years later as an actuary. Pick something based on what you enjoy. Confucious said it best choose a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life. If only someone had given me that advice when I was your age.</p>

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<p>A poor college GPA points to the following possibilities:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>One attended an academically average/mediocre high school and coasted to graduation. </p></li>
<li><p>Senioritis/immaturity issues continued into undergrad. Issues with adjusting to undergrad life, too. </p></li>
<li><p>Chose major not conducive to one’s interests and/or strengths</p></li>
<li><p>“Hitting the wall” academically or physical/mental health issues. </p></li>
<li><p>Attending one of the insanely rigorous undergrad institutions such as Reed, Swarthmore, UChicago, CMU, MIT, Caltech, etc and not being able to withstand the academic workload/rigor/pressure. </p></li>
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<p>There’s probably more that I haven’t cited…but those 5 are the most common that I’ve observed personally. </p>

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<p>A huge leap of logic here, don’t you think? </p>

<p>Your own experiences in this case is not necessarily applicable enough to a wide spectrum of American high schoolers/undergrads to justify the above.</p>