Education major

Parents Forum
1

<p>Has anyone's S or D taken an education major- if so were they able to graduate in 4 years. Did they feel it limited their opportunity to try other areas of study. My D is considering English and Secondary Ed. Looking into school requirements the double major really locks the student into defined course work and does not leave much room to explore other areas of study.
I have also heard tales of kids who got all the way to student teaching and decided teaching was not for them.
Is it practicle to major only in English as an undergrad- explore many other areas since you will have more electives and if my D wants to go into teaching go for the Education requirements at the Masters level?
That gives her more time to decide if teaching is really what she wants.
Am I correct in thinking that if you want to go into education you better start early if you want to get everything in in 4 years.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

2

<p>tom1944- What is her passion, or does she even know? Her goals? Has she taught before (as a camp counselor, tutor)? If truly undecided about English or ed, maybe waiting and letting her explore a bit could be beneficial. The MEd is always an option.</p>

<p>While not English specific, my son's experience as double major in viola performance/music ed may give you a broad idea of the potential problems. </p>

<p>His was a five year program and we knew that going in. Course load and credit load was normally in the 17-19 credit hour range per semester, and that was with a recommendation to actually take a few courses during summer or winterterm sessions. The basic plan of attack was pretty much cast in stone. Major deviation from the plan could screw you schedule-wise.</p>

<p>He actually could not take a few nonrequired courses he wanted to have due to scheduling issues.</p>

<p>The performance aspect required large time blocks be set aside for studio and ensemble classes/performance organization requirements. While there was minimal conflict with his music ed specific courses, there were numerous occaisions where the times conflicted with general ed course requirements or non-major core requirements. This will not be an issue in your D's case I assume, although she may face similar problems if she has heavy science or tech requirements with labs. </p>

<p>Following the school recommended course and curriculum outlines is highly
encouraged, as many of the core education and methods requirements are sequenced and serve as prerequisites for the next level. Depending on the size of her school or department, many of these types of courses are only offered one semester per academic year. If you miss a course, it can wreak havoc on planning the next semester. Playing catch up or working around a lower level must have course is often impossible; it could add an additional semester, potentially a year.</p>

<p>If the program actually leads to pre-certification (some do, some don't), pay attention to the timelines for certification testing requirements. </p>

<p>There are potentially off-site committments for ed majors with local schools... these can be for observation, practice teaching, and eventually student teaching. Normally the student has the responsibility for getting to and from these sites, so transportation can be an issue. This usually begins in the junior year, but could be earlier.</p>

<p>If she double majors, she'll probably need an advisor in both majors. It helps to have someone versed specifially with the major requirements and potential scheduling headaches. </p>

<p>My son dropped his ed portion at the eleventh hour, one semester (12 credits, mostly student teaching practicum) short of completion. It would have been a 5 1/2 year program for him because of some earlier scheduling issues. He was able to have fulfilled all his performance major requirements, so he ended up with a BM summa cum laude in performance this May and a very heavy music ed minor. </p>

<p>His reasons for dropping the ed were two-fold: his first love is performance and he has the talent and ability to do that professionally, and I think the length and loads of the program were beginning to wear on him. He is an excellent teacher, and enjoys teaching, but had no desire to teach in the public school system. He teaches privately and as faculty in local music schools, as well as summer programs. As a performing classical musician, I expect he will always be teaching.</p>

<p>Maybe some food for thought here. Hope it helps.</p>

3

<p>One of my D's best friends did an Education major at a good liberal arts college. I don't know what her co-major was (or if one was required in the state she went to school in.) She was able to finish in four years, and in the midst of that also fit in a six month study abroad in Thailand. She's a very successful fourth grade teacher now, with special ed certification also.</p>

4

<p>I looked up two state schools in my state known for teacher education programs. Both schools had a major for English Education. It wasn't two separate (i.e. double major) majors. It seems that it would be easily doable in 4 years.</p>

5

<p>Education programs are designed to meet the mandated certification requirements of the state in which a college is located. Each state may have a different set of requirements. Most colleges within a state (whether elite private or state college) will have pretty much the same set of requirements because, upon graduation, their students must meet the same state certification requirements.</p>

<p>Each state has different mandates. Many allow for provisional certification upon receipt of a bachelor's degree and then require a master's degree within a certain timeframe. Because of this growing trend, some colleges are developing programs which transition from undergrad into graduate and incorporate both sets of requirements, result in two degrees, and set students up for permanent certification.</p>

<p>For secondary education in particular, the education courses supporting the major are usually not excessive and may be comfortably incorporated into a four-year program with some time to explore other academic areas. Elementary certification requires more courses (given teaching across various disciplines) and there may not be room to explore other academic areas.</p>

<p>In some cases, what is required for certification within a state may be less than a school's education major requires, so if a student opts to fulfill certification requirements without completing the major program, that could also allow for exploration of different academic areas, especially if a student is interested in secondary education.</p>

6

<p>If she has the time or inclination to spend more years in her training, I'd recommend a B.A. with a major in English, followed by an M.A.T. (Master of Arts in Teaching). Watch out for the M.Ed. degree since sometimes that's just on-the-way to a Ph.D. and doesn't train or certify you to work in an actual classroom! Check in each state which degree leads to "teacher certification" since it may be called MAT or M.Ed, depending on the state.</p>

<p>She might find it a better career, deeper and more personally satisfying over the course of a LIFETIME, to have a solid foundation in many subject areas to bring to her discussion of literature with the students. She'll be that much older (a year, but an important year) and more confident than her students when she takes on student teaching and her first classroom.</p>

<p>Finally, those education theory classes are not nearly as good as all the other subjects she could be taking as an undergrad! Ed courses are somewhat dull, intellectually, IMHO. If they are packaged into a one-year professional training episode, and you regard them as a "ticket" to a job, they are more bearable than pretending they equate with the developed subject mattter of other departments (econ, history, psych, you name it). </p>

<p>She has some 30 years of teaching ahead of her. I just think she'll be a deeper, better educated teacher who'll enjoy her work more if she gets a B.A. and then trains to the task of teaching in a year following college.</p>

<p>I know there are other compelling reasons, including finances, to save a year, but that's my take on this profession. (I taught professionally and did it as described above)</p>

7

<p>Thanks everyone- re:passion my D would love to make her living as a writer but she knows that is difficult. She means "published author" not working as a writer within government or industry. She had an excellent AP English teacher this year and that put the teaching bug in her mind. Looking at various colleges it looks like most of the schools I see follow the format violadad reports. I like the extra yr that p3t has mentioned. Another problem is my D wants to go to school oos with no definitive plans to stay or work where she goes to school- I think that also matters.</p>

8

<p>Although the easiest place to be certified and find work is in the same state as where you go to school, it doesn't have to be. You can get a credential in one state and then go through the bureaucratic hoops to become approved in a different state. There are reciprocal arrangements among most states, but it's just a matter of filling out forms and waiting. If you practice teach in a school, it gives you a headstart finding your first real teaching job, so transferring states isn't helpful. Nothing's impossible, however. It's just easier to train and then work right in the same state. It's the kind of profession where people know each other at the level of principal to university placement person to others who went to the same teachers' college. In my experience, teacher hiring favors nearby university training where the district hiring officials know and trust the people doing the training. Also, each state sounds like they have different curricula and standards. They actually don't differ that much, but if it's Standard L-15 in one state, they might call it Achievement Indicator 269 somewhere else. Again, nothing impossible to overcome an interstate move right after teachers' college, but it's easier not to.</p>

9

<p>Ask your D to stay on the look-out for internships or courses during undergraduate school that bring her into contact with nearby schools. For example, my D found she could take a "Practicum in Autism" through her Psychology department (no ed department in her school). It was a seminar where the students went into a special education classroom once weekly to work with one autistic student all semester, then gather to discuss experiences mutually back at the college. </p>

<p>Sometimes there are tutoring opportunities where college students go help in the nearby Middle School, sometimes as volunteers or other times for pay.</p>

<p>These kinds of experiences will help her decide if teaching is for her, and enhance her application to an M.A.T. program following college. </p>

<p>If she takes an education course and dislikes it, that's not a reason to give up on being a teacher! Most working teachers didn't like their education courses, claiming they had little to do with helping them in the classroom. There is a lot of theory. I happened to like the theory. I'm just saying, she shouldn't evaluate whether teaching is for her by how she feels about an undergrad course in the education department.</p>

<p>You might encourage her by showing her some of the summertime writer's programs, retreats and workshops that teachers enjoy, such as "Breadloaf" in Vermont.</p>

<p>My D wants to teach but still have room for some other creative activities in her life. She's considering a two-year masters program (post-B.A.) to become a Literacy Specialist (fancy name for "Reading Teacher"), hoping that the smaller numbers of children she'll see each day (6 per hour, rather than 36 per hour) will leave her more energy at the end of each day to pursue her own artistic directions. Less take-home work, grading and so on. That could matter if your D wants to be a writer also.</p>

<p>Your D might also investigate other specializations within education, such as Teacher/Librarian. Some h.s. teachers are able to write in their spare time, while others get so overwhelmed by the tremendous stresses that they can't find their muse any more. The specialization, rather than regular classroom workloads, might reduce that problem. That's what my D's considering...I can't tell you if it'll work until a few years from now. She saw me overwork as an elementary classroom teacher, until there was nothing left for any other pursuits, so she's trying to find a variation on that.</p>

10

<p>We have a couple of different experiences. 3rd S started as a HS history teacher major. They were required to do a 3 week practicum after their freshman year. He found out he still hated being in a high school and could not see being there everyday to teach. Dropped that major with no more wasted time. Look for a program that gets into the classroom early. </p>

<p>2nd S's girlfriend graduated in West Virginia with history teaching degree. Has just been employed in Colorado. She did not report any unusual hoops to go through. Look for reciprocity I think.</p>

11

<p>Thanks again for all the feedback.</p>

12

<p>It should be doable in four years, however there are definite advantages if a fifth year will allow her to graduate with a Masters. Most of the advantages relate to certification.</p>

<p>Most states require there teachers to earn either a Masters or Masters equivalent within a specified period of time. In Maryland for example, it's ten years. If your D is financially able to stay a fifth year and earn her Masters it will save her an awful lot of coursework while she's trying to teach and/or in the summer. She would still have to take courses to stay current but she could do so at a much more leisurely pace.</p>

13

<p>There is a recent Harvard senior who is profiled in the Commencement website. She was a math/chemistry major with a strong interest in music (she produced operas). She is getting her teaching certification through UTEP (Undergraduate Teaching and Education Program) after she does a semester's practicum. There is a whole section, on the math department website about the requirements for prospective math teachers. I think, however, there is a preference for teachers with Masters. I have no doubt she will get one, eventually.</p>