<p>Its FSU on the list, not UF, fauve. If you are gonna insult a school, be sure its the right school :rolleyes:</p>
<p>[Saying</a> ‘No’ to the Ivy League - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114549432060630668.html]Saying”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114549432060630668.html)</p>
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<p>He turned down Harvard too, btw</p>
<p>Thank you jablalf saying what was overdue to be said.</p>
<p>As far as discussing the list - I was surprised that FSU is on the list and not U of FL. Any idea why? Not that FSU it is a bad school, but U of FL has previously been on Public Ivy lists. I also would have thought that Wisconsin-Madison would have been included - in know Iowa has the lowest tuition in the Big Ten, but Wisconsin’s in-state tuition is also very reasonable. Maybe because of OOS rates?</p>
<p>A school that admits students with scores below 500 on any section of the SAT is NOT even remotely comparable to an Ivy. So even if we were to accept that the available education is top-notch at these schools, such students would not be prepared to take advantage of it without several years of remedial work first.</p>
<p>I know a gentleman who runs the very busy study skills and remedial math and science program for our state flagship. He says the academic level of the students accepted is appalling, and his school has higher average SAT’s than ones on this list.</p>
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<p>I’m not convinced that either UF or FSU is the best choice for a low-cost, high-rated school in Florida. </p>
<p>A lesser-known public school, New College of Florida, has higher test scores than either, with equally low in-state tuition.</p>
<p>Add me to the list of those who find the level of arrogance and elitism in this thread (and may other threads) to be nothing short of disgusting.</p>
<p>If you have a problem with arrogance and elitism you are on the wrong internet forum, because CC will continue to offend you. That said, I think you are misinterpreting the comments. </p>
<p>For one thing, this is yet another in a series of “lists” that seem somewhat arbitrary and are designed to create controversy. No one is implying that there is anything wrong with any of these schools. They are excellent choices for many students and for many reasons. I, myself, happen to like big state universities. The need to claim they are somehow the equivalent of an “Ivy” is what is off-putting. They don’t NEED to be an “Ivy”. Not everyone WANTS an “Ivy”. </p>
<p>Whether we like it or not, much of the criteria for admission to highly-selective schools is based on numbers- GPA and standardized test scores. This criteria is fairly objective (GPA not as much, due to differences in schools, etc.) This is why a list that claims that FSU or the like is a “public Ivy” is going to generate some laughs. NO ONE is saying that there aren’t plenty of students at FSU, Miami-Ohio etc that could have attended an Ivy, are extremely bright and are getting excellent educations. </p>
<p>If you stick around this forum (which you probably should not), you will learn that even the most arrogant and elitist of us can tell you story after story of successful students who chose (for financial or other reasons) to attend “lesser” schools (even with more “prestigious” choices) and have been extremely successful and have gotten great educations.</p>
<p>Just a reminder that for those who do qualify for need-based aid, schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Amherst, and other “top” FA schools are still the best deal. Families qualify for need-based aid with incomes as high as $180,000 at some Ivies.</p>
<p>Our guidance counselor did not seem to know this, so just adding as clarification for others who are just starting out.</p>
<p>I grew up not far from Miami University, was admitted there myself years ago, and know a number of people who have gone there. In my opinion, it is considered a “public Ivy” for a number of reasons unrelated to academics:</p>
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<li> it is old</li>
<li> it is beautiful</li>
<li> it is quiet</li>
<li> it is isolated</li>
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<p>These things make a great impression on parents in particular. It is easy to imagine one’s child spending four years deep in contemplation in the charming buildings among the trees and rolling hills. The emphasis on undergraduate education over research helps.</p>
<p>But it is academically no more impressive than most good state universities. Its business program is much-lauded by alumni, but it’s the alumni network, not the quality of the education per se, that is most valuable. It is not especially well-known or highly-respected for any other field. In short, Miami gets a lot of mileage from the value of its name alone.</p>
<p>That’s not to say that it’s a bad school by any means. I would have been happy to attend, or for my kids to attend if they liked it. But all this “Ivy” talk is nonsense. Relative to the most directly comparable schools, Miami is to the Mid-American Conference as Northwestern is to the Big Ten. But in the Big Ten, that’s saying something special; in the MAC, it’s not.</p>
<p>Thank you, Mantori. That is a good summary. We all have our “favorites” and we have a right to that opinion. It doesn’t mean I am an elitist (I may be one, but not based on the fact that I am not particularly enthralled by Miami-Ohio) to not swoon over a midwest state university with pretty buildings. I went to one myself, but it was a lot bigger and had a good basketball team!</p>
<p>Why do people feel the need to bash just because there’s the term “Ivy League” in Fiske’s title for these schools? No one is saying that these schools are in the same league as Ivies. The put-downs in this thread really show how ignorant some people are.</p>
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<p>This is why so many ‘laugh’ at the any of these schools been called “Ivy.” For example, my state’s flagship, which is U of Fl, is over and over called a Public Ivy. Something like 90% of my friends went there and I, personally, have visited several times due to boyfriend been there. And I can say this much about it:</p>
<p>This quote ^ is totally dead on. These kids were taking pre-calculus their first year. The most advanced, were taking calculus 1. But both classes were a joke. A class with 500+ students in an auditorium, focused on mechanical “don’t see the rationale behind it” type of class. For chemistry, they were forced to take it ONLINE. ONLINE. They didn’t have a choice. No professor, no lecture, no nothing. Online. Like if you were going to one of those Online Career Schools.</p>
<p>For my first year of school, I went to a totally under-the-radar, not-known-by-humanity little private schools that was about 5x as expensive as U of Fl (UF is about 150/credit, my schools was 750/cred.) So I UNDERSTAND and KNOW from first-hand experience that a school CAN give you a fantastic education regardless of it not having a big name. The “Public Ivy” of UF had classes of 500+ students. My intro classes at unknown university? 5 students. I am not kidding. There were 5 students in ALL of my classes. Well not really, chemistry had 7. </p>
<p>And I learned A LOT, A LOT more than the kids at the state flagship. Simply because of the one-on-one interaction. In chemistry, I was reading Paul Dirac. I had that chance because the class was so small, the professor could discuss those sort of things with me. But at the state school? They were concentrated on the basics, of the basics, of the basics. They were, like this user called it, doing “remedial” work. </p>
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<p>I totally agree. These schools are the best deal for middle-income to low-income families because of their very, very generous packages. I am currently attending MIT in a full ride (my parent contribution is literally “zero”.) No loans. </p>
<p>So if your child can make it to one of those schools, it will be a WAY BETTER DEAL than “the public ivies.”</p>
<p>I also have a friend who’s going to Brown for about 1/3 of the price that it would have cost him to go to U of FL. And he’s in-state.</p>
<p>it’s not just the ivy leagues that have great finaid for lower income families. almost all of the top 20 or 30 private schools all have great finaid (there are some obvious exceptions like NYU). i attended USC for much cheaper than my in-state school, the university of washington. i ended up only paying around $5000/year. if you are on the lower end of the income bracket and you are a very strong student, please please please do not limit yourself to your instate publics. if you can get into a top private they will pay for you!</p>
<p>lol, those are pretty horrible schools. The term IVY has been killed by these types of lists. Public Ivys (oxymoron, I know), Ivys of the midwest (really?), etc. These lists are horrible, but this one is one of the worst I’ve seen. College of New Jersey? FSU?</p>
<p>Add me to the list of people who find not just this thread, but much of CC to be elitist. My son, is planning on attending Miami. These big state schools offer excellent programming for Ivy level kids. My son was grade accelerated, is an 800 Math SAT, 5 on BC Calc exam, 3.9 unweighted GPA with 9 AP classes, many science and math oriented. He participates in Varsity sports, etc., etc. For those of us in the hated 250K, but under 500K income bracket, who have multiple children this was the very best deal for us. This group pays all the taxes in this country. We get no help with tuition from anyone but these big state schools. They will put him in honors programming. The Ivies are throwing all their money at the lower and lower middle classes. They are increasingly filling their classes with international students who will pay the bill. They put super rich legacies in the rest of their positions. Unless you think that $100 in college loans in the worst job market I can remember is a GOOD idea for an undergraduate education (Which I do not), these schools offer the absolute best bang for the buck. Just because there are kids admitted with low scores does not mean that the course offerings for Honors leve kids are the same. It is my contention that if you go Ivy and study some silly Liberal Arts curriculum and think you compare with some Honors level Zoology student at Miami, you are sadly mistaken. It is obvious that alot of people on these boards either missed Economics, or didn’t do very well in it. It makes a lot of sense to go to the best state school you can afford, do well, and follow it with a respected grad school education, graduate with low debt and get to work.</p>
<p>My point exactly. If you make less than 100K per year, you are in good shape for aid. If you make more, you are not welcome. Until you are super rich and totally price insensitive you are “out” in the upper middle. The “real” Ivies know that this is a problem for them and they are trying to figure it out because they are missing out on VERY strong kids in our professional class. I have spent considerable time on the phone with Admissions Officers who have tried to recruit my son, but they have nothing to offer. We can’t afford 53,000. Many professional families have come to the same conclusion.</p>
<p>Just because you can’t afford School A, doesn’t mean School B is good. Did you go to state school too?</p>
<p>There is something wrong with a “Budget Ivy League” list that doesn’t include SUNY Binghamton or SUNY Geneseo but does include the University of Arizona. I know Fiske was trying for some geographical diversity but come on…is Dartmouth located in North Dakota?</p>
<p>deb- No Ivy is trying to “recruit” your son. There are hundreds of students just like him who do NOT get admitted to highly selective schools. They turn away enough completely qualified kids to fill many more classes. You keep singing this song, but it amounts to sour grapes. It’s fine if Miami is the best fit for your son, who you have repeatedly said does NOT want to go to school far from home. Just don’t keep bashing the Ivy League and those students who may feel they will be more happy with that sort of academic peer group because your family is making a different choice.</p>
<p>It’s worth asking why Edward Fiske called his list a “Budget Ivy League” list of schools. Why didn’t he just call it a list of good schools that are affordable? I would suggest he wanted to stir things up so he made a comparison between these schools and the Ivy League. If he had used the more accurate descriptor of a list of good schools that are affordable then it wouldn’t have gotten the attention that it is getting.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is fair to call me elitist because I don’t agree with the categorization of the UW as in the “Budget Ivy League”. There are a lot of things you can call the UW. One of them would be a good school if you or your kid had a good experience there. Another would be a school that isn’t so great if you or your kid didn’t have a good experience there. But I don’t think it is fair to call me a snob just because I don’t think the UW should be labeled as being in some Ivy League.</p>