<p>Hi, Iderochi, yes, we have Winthrop on our list. The size is perfect and their ed dept sounds very good. We will have to visit. My daughter still has about 20 on the list. We need to narrow it down before the summer visits. We still plan to visit a couple of schools over spring break. Her scores might be a little low for some schools, but her gpa is 4.2 weighted, so that might compensate. She plans to take the SATs at least once more, so they might go up. She doesn't study on her own. Should I encourage her to take the SAT class. Is it worth the cost?</p>
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Should I encourage her to take the SAT class. Is it worth the cost?
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Ah. Opening up one of those questions that always lead to spirited debate on CC. I think the answer really depends on your daughter's learning style and self-discipline. If she can study alone and has enough self-discipline, many people here have had success with the "Xiggi Method" (do a search for details, but it basically involves practice, practice, practice on real SAT's and using some lesser known study guides). </p>
<p>If your daughter needs a little more direction and personal attention, I've read good things about TestMasters -- but they have a fairly limited geographic reach. </p>
<p>The most CC disdain is usually reserved for Princeton Review and Kaplan. Frankly, I think the disdain is not really warranted. They provide a structure and organized homework assignments, which is the biggest step. They may be "too easy" and "beneath" (the words of some of the snarkier CC kids, not mine) somebody who is trying to go from a 1450 to a 1600 -- but they probably do a good job overall.</p>
<p>Also, don't forget about the ACT -- I'm a big fan of having kids do at least one SAT and one ACT just to see if there's a difference before making a decision to do one of them again.</p>
<p>I will mention Roanoke College in Salem, Virginia..we have had several teachers from there for our kids and they have been very professional and well prepared..it is a pretty campus with high contact with full profs...similar to Randolph Macon in a Richmond suburb which is also a very pretty homey campus.</p>
<p>Good advice, thanks. I just looked at Xiggis method. I printed some of it for my daughter. I knew her verbal score would be lower then her math score. Is the verbal different on the ACT? I really don't know anything about the ACT. In our area, I don't think many students take it.</p>
<p>Thanks, Faline, we do have Roanoke on the list. But it might have too much of a religious tone. I wish there were more small schools without a religious affiliation.</p>
<p>Candace- I noticed
"She also wants to continue taking ballet and pointe classes, so it would be great to find a school with a dance program. But that is not a major criteria"</p>
<p>How about Muhlenberg ? I know the secondary Ed program is well respected. Theater arts is VERY popular at Muhlenberg. Merit Money for good stats, too.</p>
<p>My S had identical scores on the ACT and SAT but sometimes they appeal to different learning styles. The ACT is more straightforward and focused on finding out what you already know (achievement). The SAT is more a test of reasoning, so you have to be able to make more logical guesses and leaps, and therefore being familiar with the test and familiarity with where you lose points can also be "studied". It is not uncommon for instance to miss very elementary math problems when you can do the "math" but failed to get the implied meaning of the question on the SAT. The ACT also helps showcase subjects where a student excels because it is scored by more subject categories. Both tests require stamina, which can be practiced and prepared for and both tests require pacing, which requires knowing test design and can also be prepared for. The ACT used to be the longer exam but now that you have to write an SAT essay, I think they are both rather tedious. I preferred the SAT Writing as an SATII and think it is unfair to a large segment of kids who can't focus that long.</p>
<p>I think it is wise to practice the exams, pencil and paper in your own room, but taking breaks only like the Monitor would call them. Then when you are refreshed, go back and see where you lost time and missed "the point." To me, that is preparation. This gives a student the sense that her score was based on her ability to be as rested, alert, and test ready as possible.</p>
<p>Whether or not a student will drill vocab or math is really up to the student and their level of motivation. My son suddenly at the last moment decided to test prep on his own and gained 200 points and pretty much blew all of the college trips, lists and plans we had matched to his former performance. Was he suddenly smarter..I don't think so. I think he is not a morning person and was "asleep" to how the test was constructed. He just decided to approach the test more like he would approach a day in a sporting event and to come in shape and prepared. He reviewed where he was penalized and could see how he threw away points. In SAT prep classes, I think he just daydreamed. On computer practices, he just fooled around. I really think pencil and paper practice just like exam days works best. Another caution I think is to "get" that some kids can simply take these things cold and soar. My kid sits in classes now with many students who don't need to prepare as much as he does, but that seems to be fine with him. He understands that he is someone who has to walk through preparation steps for all things.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, my son did better on the ACT than the SAT, and we're from a part of the country where not many people take the ACT as well. Colleges really don't seem to care about that anymore. Elon I know will "mix and match" ACT and SAT scores to come up with the best overall score for a student. </p>
<p>The ACT and SAT differ somewhat in "Verbal" -- ACT has a separate Reading Section (similar to SAT -- reading passages, answering questions) and English Section. So you get a Reading score AND an English score. Bear in mind that what the ACT calls the "Science" section isn't necessarily science -- it's reading, logic and data analysis. Really hard to describe -- but if you get hold of a sample test you'll see what I mean. </p>
<p>So the short answer is, yes -- the way SAT tests CR and the ACT tests Reading/English are different. In my opinion the math sections are more similar, although there are some differences. </p>
<p>Finally, the ACT has score selection. If you take the ACT more than once, you can select which score gets sent to a college. For the SAT, if you want to send a college your score, the college will get ALL the scores. Some people get worried that they don't want the college to see all of their SAT scores, but I think that's overblown. I take the colleges at their word when they say they will only consider a student's best overall score.</p>
<p>Thanks jerseymom, I grew up in NJ, but we are in Florida now. I doubt my daughter would look at a "cold" school. This morning it was 40 degrees and you would think it was the north pole as far as she was concerned. She had to borrow my polar fleece jacket because she doesn't even have a real coat.</p>
<p>candace, diversity is also important to us..although there are a lot of adult commuters at Towson, it is a great teachers prep college with a real dancing program. My goddaughter from there is a dancer..and you also have to consider the "dancing environment" in college choice..Towson and also Goucher have access to wonderful performance opportunities which can be inspiring. I also think she might look at the University of Delaware.</p>
<p>thanks, Iderochi and Faline, I really appreciate all your input. There is so much to think about! My daughter wants me to make the list then she will look at the schools. I am spending way too much time on this. It is my hobby I guess.</p>
<p>I just wanted to put in my 2 cents about Roanoke and the religious aspect. As far as I know my son may be the only one of our religion there and I don't think he feels like he is treated any differently or is out of place. It is a Lutheran college but there are no religion courses required. My son's friends were happy to tell me what their religion was but it was more like revealing just another aspect of who they were: I'm from North Carolina, my Dad's a teacher, I love the food here, I'm a Lutheran. All of my son's close friends are of different religions from each other from what I gathered. There was some good natured teasing about who had the best church but that was about it. As much talk there is on this board about a feel for a college and finding one where drinking is not the main focus, Roanoke is one of those colleges. He said that the RA's just do not allow any drinking at all in the freshman dorms. period. Not to say that there aren't kids drinking as freshman, but that it's not expected and someone that doesn't drink wouldn't be considered weird.</p>
<p>I'm wondering though about your daughters priorities on her list. Right now she's pretty sure she wants an el ed degree. Does she want a minor or double major in deaf studies? Does she want to seriously dance or be certified in dance education? Is college size a deal breaker? - Roanoke is too small, most of the State colleges like U of D and Towson are too large. It does sound like Maryland is as far North as she wants. How about price - is merit or financial aid important?</p>
<p>I agree about having her try the ACT. It's not the norm here but I had my son take it. His scores were about the same,but I know other kids that did better on the ACT. I would have her take it one more time to try to get her verbal up a little. Definately depends on the individual student as to whether to go with a prep class or not. My son said he would study on his own but I don't think he really did. We'll be thinking of this alot with child #3.</p>
<p>Hi, Kathiep, you are right we should still look at Roanoke. It sounds like your son is very happy there. Right now, she is set on being a kindergarten teacher. She works with preschool children as part of her child development class and next year she will be at an elementary school as a peer tutor. She would like to learn sign language, but probably not interested in deaf studies. A school of about 6,000 would be the ideal, but not set in stone. The price is not an issue right now, but if there are less expensive schools that are perfect, we wouldn't mind. She has been dancing since the age of 4, but will not pursue it as a minor. She would enjoy taking a class in pointe if that were offered. My daughter is not competitive at all. She wants to get away from the high school cliques and meet a "nice" new group of friends.</p>
<p>candace, based on some campus visits my son also thought 5-6000 was the perfect size -- and then we were amazed at how few schools there were that fell in that category in the South. Seems like there are a lot of LAC's under 2500 and a lot of public colleges that were 7500+. </p>
<p>I thought of another school that we looked briefly at -- Western Carolina. I think the size is right, but I have no idea about education majors. It is VERY isolated, though. And has hard winters, harder than many schools much farther north so it might not be a great fit.</p>
<p>Kathiep - It may be that when your daughter visited Guilford something just didn't click. Both my daughters had that experience at a number of colleges. In fact, choosing a college kind of became a process by elimination.</p>
<p>And, there are a few things about Guilford some students won't like. It really depends on what's important to them. For example, we heard that the food was not great at Guilford. When we visited, we agreed it wasn't spectacular. However, my daughter is a picky eater and we figured she'd probably feel that way about the food at most colleges. So that wasn't a deal breaker. She has a fridge, microwave and crock pot in her dorm room and there is a community kitchen that she uses quite frequently, so she's not starving.</p>
<p>The other thing that everyone needs to know about Guilford is that it is a WRITING INTENSIVE school. She knew this before she chose Guilford. Eventhough she felt like writing was her weakest area, she decided that with Guilford placing such a strong emphasis on writing that hopefully she could improve, which I am happy to say has proved to be true.</p>
<p>candace, My daughter also thought she wanted to be an elementary school teacher before her first student teaching experience in college. She did a teachers aide sort of thing for the first semester of senior year in HS at her little brother elementary school and loved it. After interacting with the middle school kids though, she realized that was the group she wanted to work with. Not saying that will happen with your daughter but I would make sure that the colleges offer more then just elementary ed. From my teacher and administration friends, I understand there is a huge need for special ed teachers and a dual degree in that and elementary ed would be very marketable. With her interest in sign language, it seems like a natural fit.</p>
<p>Tornadoalley, We didn't get so far as a visit to Guilford but it was on the list. Maybe it was just a little farther then Elon and we didn't have time for both. But, I've got one more child so we're not done with the college search business!</p>
<p>Kathiep, good point you made. She might change her mind. She is taking Spanish 5 next year, after AP, because maybe she will be a bilingual teacher. That would be a plus, especially if she comes back to Florida. Special ed might be a possibility as well.</p>
<p>Hi TornadoAlley, I wanted to ask you about the writing intensive focus at Guilford. My daughter does not enjoy writing, as much as I tried to encourage it, so I am concerned about it. Is it part of a freshman seminar or is it a focus in every class. Actually, this year her English teacher loves her writing, so it has been a confidence booster. Guilford sounds like it has a lot of qualities that my daughter is looking for in a school.</p>
<p>Getting a teaching job, like most other jobs, has more to do with being in the right place at the right time (luck) than having the "best" credentials. I think universities should explain this their grads and guide them through the process. I wish the most highly qualified teachers got the best teaching jobs, but in the real world of retirements, transfers, maternity leaves, etc., we often have to hire quickly. </p>
<p>As an experienced, "highly qualified teacher" who sits on many interview teams, here is my advice:
1) Attend a good school and get a degree in elementary education. We don't really care which school you attended (unless it was Columbia...very hot right now in education circles ; )
2) Distinguish yourself with some sort of special certification or masters degree...like national teacher certification (we love that one), reading, gifted, educational technology (we REALLY love that one)
3) Brush up on your interviewing skills. I'm shocked by how many candidates give exceptionally poor interviews. They're often terribly nervous, shy, dress unprofessionally, say the wrong things, seem abrasive, etc. Let your personality and professionalism shine. Show us that parents will adore you.
4) Be flexible. Show us that you'll teach any grade and just about any kids.
5) Let us see your passion for teaching and for children. If a candidate convinces me that he/she loves children, I give a thumbs up almost everytime. Show us that you love to climb into the head of each kid and see what makes him/her tick.</p>
<p>Once you are in the door and prove yourself to be half decent, opportunities develop quickly. As an interview team (at a selective, public magnet program in a large school district), we often bypass young teachers with high gpa's and great internship experiences, for teachers with personality and passion. Schools want to hire passionate young teachers to energize their staffs. Show us that you are that special young person.</p>
<p>Just my two cents...; ) Good luck to all. Teaching is beautiful work!</p>
<p>Thanks so much for that great insight. I am printing it out and showing it to my daughter.</p>