University of Rochester might fit the bill of a good premed school associated with a highly ranked medical school with a fairly reasonable acceptance rate for undergraduates, if OP still is interested in a US university education.
Although the transportation costs would be expensive and the weather will be nothing like Australia.
Here is the important stat. Out of 21,622 students that matriculated to U.S. Medical Schools in 2018-2019, 97 were international students.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321462/data/factstablea4.pdf
So just to clarify, my grades in my eleventh year will still be important even if they do not get counted in my final class rank (which is based only on senior year)? I heard that colleges like to read about success stories, where there’s a visible increase over time? Exactly how much will my year eleven grades matter then if my grades in my final year and ATAR (school leaving certificate rank) are basically perfect? I’m currently preparing for my final year 11 exams but I want to spend more time preparing for SATs which I’m sitting in October.
OP, you’re missing the critical point the posters here agree on: no one gets into a US tippy top just for wanting it. And not for coming back and saying, ‘but I really, really want it.’ Nor, “I am EXTREMELY self-motivated and disciplined, however, and have an insane work ethic.” Right now, it appears you don’t have the record the top US colleges need to see. The full record, because these colleges are holistic and every single one of their wants needs to be met.
Nor can you tell these colleges it’s because you want to go to a US med school. (They don’t admit based on career hopes.) Or assume about chances. You’ve given no hint of your grades and rigor, the US standardized test scores. And rather then being top of your extracurriculars, taking on more challenges, having more impact- and possibly more standing in those, beyond your own high school- you dropped ECs.
ECs, btw, are more than just being involved in something or other. Kids are finding opportunities to press further. A typical successful pre-med wannabe will have some experience in the health arena, volunteering, some do research at unis, some have other work in advocacy- rolling up their sleeves and making a difference now, not just planning to someday be a doctor.
It’s not just about hs rank. The “determination” has to show in every part of the Common App and the indvidual school supplements.
And these adcoms are savvy. They know, (because they work with thousands of apps annually,) what kids ARE capable of. And look for the record and the thinking, the drives and how they are being fulfilled.
And then, more.
I’m sorry this is a disappointment. But yes, all grades from 9-12 matter. They don’t look for “success stories” just in grade improvement. They’ll have more than 10k kids applying (who got past ‘first cut’) who never needed to “improve,” have been at the top of their games for 3.5 years of high school, plus all the rest.
It’s THAT difficult. And then, what other posters said about these colleges being a reach for all, even kids who do seem to be perfect.
Okay because I thought they only care that your academics pass a certain threshold. If I get a 99.95 ATAR (top 0.05% of state), near perfect SATs, etc., I would think that my year 11 results wouldn’t really bring me down (not that they would much anyway since they’re in the top 5% of grade) because I can fully demonstrate my academic abilities in year 12?
Also when I said “I dropped my ECs” I was actually just talking about quitting piano/flute, and swimming training, which were all things that I did but weren’t really passionate about. Outside of that I still have done community outreach volunteering, work experience at a hospital, been involved in ambulance cadets, and shadowed a doctor. I still have 1.5 years left and I’m planning on finding research opportunities, participating in science fairs, doing science/engineer summer schools, and a service trip to Cambodia (which our school offers).
I’m not clear when you are graduating? What do you mean you have 1 1/2 years left? If you are entering your last year of high school, you need to apply to university THIS Fall. The common application has already opened.
Your full year 12 grades won’t even be considered by US universities, (other than making sure you don’t get an acceptance rescinded) and the most they’ll see is first semester grades. Typically junior year/11th grade are the most important for US admission.
Re-read the replies from @lookingforward.
Ok so let me explain this to you.
So it’s August right now yeah? The deadline is 2020 December/2021 January for most colleges correct? I am graduating in October 2020, and the results for my high school leaving exam in which an ATAR (percentile rank) come out in November.
So therefore, using some simple mathematics, I have approximately 1.5 years left, and my full year 12 grades will be available for consideration, including my high school leaving exam results.
Sorry, I projected US high school terms onto your initial post. I assumed, incorrectly, that you would be graduating spring of '20 and beginning college in Fall of '20.
For US candidates, students apply the very beginning of their last year of HS, which for us, is the start of 12th grade. Hence my confusion. My apologies!
Are you looking for a Spring ‘21 or a Fall’ 22 start?
What do you plan on doing between your graduation in October 2020 and your unlikely enrollment in a US college in September 2021? Do not give up any local uni opportunities for this pipe dream
Schools in the southern hemisphere, particularly those countries below the Tropic of Capricorn, generally do not follow a August/September-May/June calendar.
@skieurope - What typically happens for students with a school year that does not align with the US model? Is their a gap 1/2 year (or longer) or a Spring start? When do US colleges expect them to apply? How does that impact students needing to apply in their home countries for safety schools?
We’re talking a relatively small cohort, but for countries like AU/NZ/SA, taking a gap year in much more common anyway, so I assume that students attending US colleges would do typical gap year activities of travel and/or work. Most colleges that are frequently discussed on these forums only offer Fall admission, so Spring start is rarely an option.
I would assume that those applicants also applying to local universities are either applying during their gap year or are applying for admission after a gap year, but I am not as familiar with admissions policies of AU universities.
Well pretty much this: getting as high an ATAR as possible, sitting the UCAT, and then preparing for medical school interviews. That’s basically the only three things I’d need to do for an Australian medical school, which I’m going to do regardless. I’m pretty much going to apply broadly to many colleges and hope for top 20, if not top 50 with FA, and I’d take that over any Australian medical school because I really want to practice medicine in the US.
No, they do not only care about this. They get tons of applicants with perfect grades, don’t accept many of those, and accept some whose grades are not perfect.
By which comment I gather that you have either not taken on board, or decided to ignore, all of the experienced comments about this path.
If you do undergrad in the US but aren’t accepted to US medical school , can you return to Australia for med school? Med school is such a long shot for foreign students that you want to have a solid back up plan if you are sure you want to practice medicine.
So, now you have comments from posters experienced in how tough the challenge is for a US tippy top. I hope you’ll apply our perspective and decide how to proceed. Not fight it. No assumptions. It is hugely difficult.
And if any top college feels it has enough current Australian students, that affects your chances. Or some super great kids from NZ apply and they decide to take them.
We got pretty far before getting clarification about your school status and ECs. Adcoms will comb over every bit. Yes, 11th matters, as do 9th and 10th. You need to learn as much as you can about what your targets want and look for, from them, not other sites, so you can form your own best presentation. And narrow the list to those where you truly match what they want. Because, while you choose the targets, they choose whom to admit.
So there are two routes. One is low chance of success (fairly low at undergrad level and much lower for medical school admission), highest cost (again, especially when you get to grad school and have to fund it yourself), and longest route to the end. The other is a high chance of success (Australian med school to USMLE), lower cost, and (afaik) takes less time. I’m having a hard time understanding why the first route is seen to be preferable. Is it just brand name?
OP, what is your plan if you get accepted to pre-med in the US but do not get accepted to medical school, or even if you are one of the handful of foreign students per year to get into medical school, but can’t get the funding for it? You’d have to return to Australia with effectively just a BSc… then what?
Not really a “high chance of success” at all lol, especially for competitive specialties. If I wanted to go for a competitive specialty, I would have to do some sub-internships/elective rotations in the US (which are very hard for IMGs to get), probably 1-3 years postgraduate research in the US, and a pre-residency fellowship, in order to be competitive. The fact is that IMGs are severely disadvantaged when it comes to matching into residency, compared to US medical school grads. And no it’s not for “brand name”, I genuinely want to study abroad as well, and I like the idea of living in the US (part of the reason I want to practice in the states). So I really want to get to the US as early as possible.
My plan if I don’t get accepted into medical school straight away is to do a master’s degree, and reapply. Then look at other options (osteopathic schools, returning to Australia, etc.). For funding, I’m looking at going for non-MSTP MD/PhD (something I’ve wanted to do anyway), private loans, loans from home government (not sure about last one).
Not being accepted in one cycle is not really the end of the world, and I’ve spoken to people from Australia who’ve graduated from an Ivy League who entered as premed and discovered another passion as well. If I’m already in the US, I would be much less likely to give up and go home, so my motivation would be on another level, whereas in Australia I would always have the easy option of staying, and doing my USMLEs and all that other stuff would be all very uncertain if you know what I mean.
Right. Maybe it’s worth repeating post #21 from @Eeyore123 :
“Here is the important stat. Out of 21,622 students that matriculated to U.S. Medical Schools in 2018-2019, 97 were international students.”
That’s a 0.45% acceptance rate for internationals. That is what I meant by a very low chance. Yes, you will still count as international if you complete undergrad in the US.
Um… no. That’s not how statistics works.
If you want to know the acceptance rate for internationals, you look at the number of internationals who apply, and the number of internationals who are accepted.
What you did was look at the number of internationals who MATRICULATED, then looked at the total number of students who MATRICULATED, and said that was the ACCEPTANCE rate.
And yes I was aware that you still count as international if you complete undergrad in the US.