Information regarding percentage of classes with over 50 students is readily available.
For example: Northwestern University reports 79% of classes with fewer than 20 students, and six (6%) percent of classes with 50 or more students.
University of Chicago is almost identical reporting 80% and 6%.
Columbia University reports 82% and 9%.
Elite LACs tend to have few classes with 50 or more students as they report from zero (0%) percent to just 4%. So for one who does not want any classes of 50 students or more, then consider LACs. But, the benefits of a âsmall classâ are quickly lost once class size is above 30 students. That figure, however, is not reported.
P.S. Some ultra-elite national universities report lots of classes with 50 or more students. For example, Stanford University reports 68% and 12%. MIT is at 70% and 11%.
UCal-Berkeley reports 54% and 19%. UCLA has 57% and 19%. UC-Santa Barbara reports 49% and 20%.
@Alexandre, the issue isnât the exclusion of graduate students but the inclusion of faculty members who teach little if anything. They are counted in the number of faculty. And, often âclassesâ counted include independent studies or practicums or other 'courses" that are listed but where nobody is enrolled or rarely enrolled. The index is really meaningless.
Another issue isnât that graduate students monopolize faculty memberâs time and resources. Thatâs a disconnect in terms of how graduate students factor into the equation. In fact, they can often act as quasi-faculty members in terms of lab structure. Regardless, the issue isnât grad students taking time from faculty. The issue is that the % of classes by size is an absurd meaningless number. The issue that should concern students is the % of smaller classes they can/have to take. Think about these stats in a concrete way and youâll see what I mean.
Letâs say a school offers the following:
History 101 -350 students
History 202 -250 students
History 215 -260 students
History 212 -280 students
History 303 -150 students
History 330 Section A -20 students
History 330 Section B-20 students
History 330 Section C 20 students
History 330 Section D 20 students
History 330 Section E 20 students
History 330 Section F 20 students
History 330 Section G 20 students
History 330 Section H 20 Students
History 330 Section I 20 students
History 330 Section J 20 students
History 330 Section K 20 Students
History 330 Section L 20 students
History 330 Section M 20 students
Letâs say a student has to take History 101, 202, 215, 212, 303 and 330. For that student, >80% of the classes have 150 or more students in it. Yet, that school advertises that over 70% of their classes have 20 students or fewer. And they are both correct. Students at schools with large % of small classes often have mostly very large classes.
If only there were some way to know how the Common Data Sets break things out.
For class sections, the number in each group:
2-9 10-19 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-99 100+ Total
âUndergraduate class sections are defined as any sections in which at least one degree-seeking undergraduate student is enrolled for credit. Exclude distance learning classes and noncredit classes and individual instruction such as dissertation or thesis research, music instruction, or one-to-one readings. Exclude students in independent study, co-operative programs, internships, foreign language taped tutor sessions, practicums, and all students in one-on-one classes. Each class section should be counted only once and should not be duplicated because of course catalog cross-listings.â
Thereâs a second level of reporting for class subsections (labs and discussion groups), with identical granularity. âFor example, a lecture class with 800 students who met at another time in 40 separate labs with 20 students should be counted once in the â100+â column in the class section column and 40 times under the â20-29â column of the class subsections table.â
Those NU numbers are hard to believe. Itâs been 30 years but no way did 79% of my classes have fewer than 20 kids. I would estimate that maybe 25% of my classes did. Even by senior year, almost all of my classes had more than that. My smallest classes were foreign language classes and my senior sem classes in my major. Not sure how they get to those percentages.
A college may have 79% of its classes be small classes, but most students may find most of the classes to be large, because the large classes are large because they are the most popular ones.
If you are in a popular major (at Northwestern, journalism, economics, or biology, for example), you will find bigger classes than if you are in a less popular major (some of the arts and ethnic/area studies, for example).
Ok but that doesnât make sense, if most students at NU are econ or journalism or bio, social science etc, and their classes are more than 20, wouldnât you then have a lot more classes for them than the foreign language or ethnic studies major? Meaning that if F/L and studies majors are small portion of the majors,
As other posters have hinted at, an econ major at NU or similar college will go through very few classes with less than 20, definitely not 79% and those probably are seminar classes.
âUCal-Berkeley reports 54% and 19%â
This should not be believed, I know Russian Studies drives that number. Very few majors at UCB will have 54% of their classes at 20 students probably even Slavic Languages (googled the actual dept), with 31K undergrads, some of these numbers should be taken with lots of salt.
If 79% of classes are under 20, then the vast majority of a typical studentâs classes are expected to have more than 20 students. Only a small portion of classes may be big lectures, but a large portion of students still take them because each class has many students. Similarly a large portion of classes may be small seminar types, but relatively few students take them because each of the small seminars have few students. Specific numbers and related calcs are below, assuming the average class size is the middle of the range:
In NUâs 2017-18 CDS
47% of classes have 6 students
32% of classes have 15 students
9% of classes have 25 students
4% of classes have 35 students
2% of classes have 45 students
4% of classes have 75 students
2% of classes have 200 students
If students were randomly assigned to any of the classes.
15% chance his class is 6 students
25% chance his class is 15 students
12% chance his class is 25 students
7% chance his class is 35 students
6% chance his class is 45 students
17% chance his class is 75 students
18% chance his class is 200 students
~Half of classes have 6 students and only 2% of classes have 200 students, yet in this example, the student is more likely to be assigned to the big 200 student lecture than the small 6 student seminar. As others have pointed out, actual class assignments arenât random. Popular majors tend to have bigger classes, and less popular majors tend to have smaller classes. The small classes may also be primarily graduate classes with as little as 1 undergrad in the class.
Aggregate statistics really distort the picture, rather than illuminating it. Required core classes are unavoidably large, even at small colleges, but colleges generally have developed well-thought-out and well-practiced approaches to deal with that issue for these classes. The better benchmark would be to look at electives in departments that are relevant to oneâs majors. As an example (perhaps the most extreme example currently), if youâre a CS major, you need to mostly focus on CS and math classes, and what limitations the college places on these classes.
@Data10: The flaw in your analysis, in my opinion, is that students are not randomly assigned to classes for the overwhelming majority (nearly all) of their classes.
@homerdog : 30 years is a long time. Much has changed.
Things may have changed but 25% to 79% is still not believable, and Iâm not picking on NU, all colleges do this, the Berkeley number is at best misleading, at worst, a flat out lie. I know a few people at NU and admittedly theyâre all in NUâs largest undergrad school, the Arts and Sciences, with majors ranging from econ to art history. And the smallest class size was probably their freshman seminar, 15 students their first quarter. They may have had some junior or senior year less than 10, but nowhere close to 79%.
However, fewer students are choosing (or being allowed to choose due to capacity limits) the smaller classes.
For example, if there is a small class intended for 15 students, but 150 students want to take it, then either it will grow to a larger size (up to 150), or some of the 150 students will not be allowed to take the class, or both (e.g. it can be a 50 student class, but that means that 100 students are kept out).
Well I know many former NU undergrads, and the number of classes taken with fewer than 20 students exceeded 79%. But, that was probably due in large part to their majors.
Or they can add another section. Highly unlikely that a class with a limit of 15 students is going to have 150 students attempting to get in. If so, just add another section or two.
@Publisher My post explicitly said, "actual class assignments arenât random. Popular majors tend to have bigger classes, and less popular majors tend to have smaller classes. "
The point of the example was % of classes under 20 and chance of a particular student having classes under 20 are very different metrics that are expected to be very different magnitudes. This point remains regardless of whether class assignments are random or not. Perhaps it would be more clear to consider a fictional college with 100 students and 1 lecture class. All students have to take the lecture class, and 1 of the 100 students is also is involved in research with the professor, which in this example gets treated as a class for CDS purposes. In this example, the CDS reports 50% of classes have <6 students, yet only 1% of students takes a class with <6 students.
The same principle extends to real world colleges. The percent of students taking small classes will be far less than the percent of classes being small as reported by the CDS; and the percent of students taking big lecture classes will be far more than the percent of classes being big lectures as reported by the CDS.
