I think one’s perceptions of “what everyone does” are highly influenced by peer group. My kids’ schools have plenty of kids who take those types of jobs but their immediate peer group really wasn’t into that kind of thing. D’s closest friends became assistant museum curators, research assistants on archaeological digs, did Teach for America, etc.
To take an unpaid internship and later seek employment in these fields requires financial support from the family. My daughter was looking at some Fed internships in DC or abroad but now it seems she is interviewing with Investment Banks - a well defined understandable path for somebody on Finaid.
I shall tell her that she will never become a part of the intellectual elite. Unless, of course, she gets filthy rich, becomes a patron of the Arts and Sciences and intellectual elites embrace her.
But surely there are post-graduation options other than unpaid internships and investment banking, right?
You know the answer, ucb, so no need to phrase it in the form of a question. Here you go - There are plenty of options in between unpaid internships and investment banking.
@pizzagirl “does one send a child to elite school with the intent of steering them into only a handful of careers or does one actually respect one’s child enough to let him make his own way in the world?”
I think that the student needs to make their own decisions, but part of that should be the impact their choices may have on them later. The more wealthy the parents, the less risk in choosing a major with lower employment demand.
A poor student may only be a strong candidate for an lower demand major if the show extraordinary aptitude of understand the risk clearly and don’t care. So, if she wants to major in music at Julliard or Curtis, that may make more sense than a directional in many cases.
Wealthy parents/ students have always had more options- ability to apply anywhere and know cost is a not a concern, ability to take unpaid internships or unpaid research, etc. This is nothing new,
Pizza you need a PhD these days to become a museum curator at any real museum. That PhD takes six years if you are lucky enough to be able to get a funded position. As you say the world is very tough and the competition for well compensated jobs is very fierce. I remain baffled why people would be surprised that most parents hope their children are able to obtain jobs with better remuneration than a HS teacher if they are capable. Don’t you think you might have a slightly different perspective if your children did not have the inheritance waiting for them. It’s not about the money but rather the choices one gains by having a more competitive career. The choice to work part time while your children are young, the choice not to send them to standard day care, the ability to own your home in a nice neighborhood with good schools, the choice to travel , the choice to take in broadway plays and the opera. None of that is remotely possible on a regular basis unless you have a competitive job. I agree your children have to make the major decisions in their lives but how can they truly understand the issues they will face at 35-40 when they are 18-21. I was honest with my children and when they were young adults I explained to them how much things really cost and that their choice of occupations would determine their options as adults. Being rich is a very poor ambition but having the ability to have choices is a wonderful thing.
If your idea of “how much things really cost” is such that it makes it look like one cannot live on the median household income in the area, then it should be no surprise that you effectively told them to chase the money.
ubc if you have children capable of doing high level jobs it’s not about chasing money. In truth the local fireman are going to out earn the vast majority of graduates from the top schools. In my area the typical fireman is making over 150k with some up to 250k. When you include the pension at fifty the average fireman makes over 200k per year for a job that doesn’t require college. This is where the easy money is located along with many other state jobs. Now being a fireman is a noble enough occupation but the unions have gamed the system and now it’s out of control. Surely ubc hoping your children do as well as the local fireman isn’t chasing the money.
UCB, according to this board you can graduate without a STEM degree and still not be employed at Starbucks. I only know how to seek employment based on technical skills so I do not have any opinions. It seems she is taking a well-traveled path of least resistance.
On the other hand I do not see anything wrong with spending 2 years in IB while living in the City and deciding what she wants to do with her life when she grows up. She had a 10 weeks internship in the field adjacent to IB this summer and did not get totally turned off.
A girl from our neighborhood is spending 2 years post-graduation on some small island in the middle of the Pacific teaching English to native population. The island will soon go under water and everyone will be relocated. The closest civilization - US military base is 25 min by plane and there are no tampons or toilet paper on the island. My daughter can do this too if she wishes but I would prefer the previous scenario.
Re: #508
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes332011.htm does not indicate that firefighters typically earn anything close to $150,000 to $250,000. Those numbers would be for higher rank senior firefighters who do lots of overtime, and the higher end of that range includes generous benefits (though then you have to count benefits for other jobs that you are comparing pay levels to). The higher paying fire departments may also be difficult to find open jobs at as well.
Also, firefighters do require some post-secondary education (not necessarily a bachelor’s degree, but specific fire science course work which may be taken at a community college or other college).
When my house floods or catches on fire, I’ll take my chances with a firefighter or police officer , nurse, or social worker. Easy money-no. Maybe you should try running into a burning building sometime.
Say, I think you’re misstating any “inheritance.” As far as my kids know - there’s no such thing. My H and I know what’s there and that our intent is to convert the 529s we saved for them but didn’t use (as we pulled money out of elsewhere) for their eventual children’s use. That’s all. As far as they know, we are standard issue upper middle class suburbia. Don’t make this out like we are Hearsts or Rockefellers here, ok?
One kid majored in Econ. One majored in an honors history program with an Econ minor. They are not flighty or fluttery or engaging in Underwater Basketweaving. They both have a strong work ethic. One kid is employed; the other just finished a year long fellowship and is interviewing for various positions in different fields (with different long term potential) but is also contemplating grad school. This is the kid who would make a great hs history teacher. Neither of their elite educations will EVER be wasted. That’s like saying its a waste to go visit the Louvre or hold hands with your loved one and walk on the beach at sunset. It’s about experiences. I couldn’t care less if their many friends who went to UIUC (our state flagship) make more. We valued an experience and we were fortunate enough we could provide that experience. Obviously many can’t and that’s how it goes.
Btw, it’s folks with the attitude that the point of an elite school is just the card that needs to be stamped to get an “elite” job who are ruining the elite schools for the rest of us. It is a bug, not a feature, that such a high % of elite school grads tromp off to Wall Street.
Tromping off to Wall Street is not a life sentence. It is a practical strategy- especially for kids with big student loans- to stick it out for two years while living with lots of roommates and sharing pasta dinners at home- for retiring the debt quickly and then having your entire life and career ahead of you.
@furrydog I came out of school just before the computer revolution, but from my vantage point the field is not as stable as I would like. Ditto for STEM (because of a worldwide talent base).
A wiser way to play this employment game is to go “interdisciplinary”, using the tools of STEM in a field that is traditionally non-quantitative. I did so, and have recommended it to my kids, to great effect. When I took my first job many of my friends thought I “settled”, not realizing that I was playing the long game. The job was stimulating enough, offered an excellent pension, secure, and left me the time to study something that I believed will greatly “benefit” me in the long run-investing.
Mrs. Canuck never really had to work and I left my job at age 50. (I could have left a couple of years earlier but some of that pension money was too good to give up). The same friends, and some colleagues are now envious of my good fortune, imagine that. Sure luck plays a role (see what the S&P did from 1975-2000), but having a realistic strategy and the discipline to follow through is important too.
Sometimes I really don’t understand the defensiveness I see on this board.
Canuck- some of us don’t want to retire at 50. We love what we do, the money becomes incidental (although wonderful) once the retirement is funded. Hence- some of the defensiveness. The idea that a career which is not STEM related in any way shape of form, which doesn’t involve 'settling", could somehow be desirable.
If my husband thought that my not having to work was advantageous to me- either intellectually, socially, etc. I would bash in his head with a frying pan. My career has been just as important to me- apart from the money- as his was to him.
Get it now? My leisure is not some high end accessory he gets to brag about.
And I did just retire (at 51) but I had a great career, a great run, and never really thought about “retiring early” til some other things came up in my life fairly recently. The money was great, but that was the accessory to an intellectually stimulating and fun career.
“wiser way to play this employment game is to go “interdisciplinary”, using the tools of STEM in a field that is traditionally non-quantitative. I did so, and have recommended it to my kids, to great effect. When I took my first job many of my friends thought I “settled”, not realizing that I was playing the long game.”
I agree having mathematical tools at one’s disposal is wise. I majored in a program called Mathematical Methods in the Social Sciences (taken with a double major in Econ). I’m not “against” being math-y by any means.
How do you define “the intellectual elite”?
Good grief. No one, myself included, has said there is anything wrong with going to WS or whatever. It is the mindset that ONLY those jobs are worthwhile and all others are a “waste of an elite education” that is problematic. Or that the only value of education is the salary it can bring.