What if the individual concerned doesn’t like the working culture or the very work he/she has the talent to not only make a living in, but excel at it?
For instance, my former engineering supervisor and friend grew up working in restaurants through college and several chefs/restaurateurs have approached him to consider being the chef at their restaurants after seeing his work.
Only fly in the ointment, HE HATES COOKING OR BEING ANYWHERE NEAR THE KITCHEN. And his hatred of cooking is such he would rather eat a simple sandwich or go out to eat rather than cook a meal requiring any more effort.
Only when good friends are over would he put his cooking talents on display…and would offer us far better meals than he’s willing to cook even for himself.
So is someone who decides to be a SAHP or retire at 50 wasting their gifts? Should we be disappointed in the bright young woman who works in IB simply because she wasn’t “completely turned off” by work in an adjacent field? Do we denigrate the Harvard student to decides to play basketball instead of making use of his elite education? I don’t think so. I certainly hope not! Those are all personal decisions. I wouldn’t be disappointed if a kid of mine had an elite education and decided to make any one of those career decisions.
But, because none of the options make use of the full range of skills of the people who have chosen them, if you use the definition above, those choices are no more worthy of an elite liberal arts education than the guy playing his guitar for the dog in the garage. (Assuming the dog likes the music, that is.)
I think it’s a little hypocritical for someone who was a SAHM to complain that other people are “wasting their gifts.” (I want to be very clear: I am not putting down SAHM’s at all. Just pointing out that you can’t have it both ways - you can’t retire from the work force entirely but then charge that others who are still working but in “lesser” capacities are wasting their gifts.)
BTW, I am now retired and I “waste my gifts” on college confidential, yoga, and pilates all the livelong day, lol.
There may not be jobs using all of ABCDEFGH skills.
Even if there are such jobs, they may not be as desirable to you as those which use only ABC skills.
Sure, someone with ABCDEFGH skills may have a choice between various jobs that use any subset of ABCDEFGH skills. But it does not mean that the optimal job from his/her viewpoint is one that uses all of ABCDEFGH skills.
But does “doing the most they can with their skills” automatically equal making the highest possible salary?
There is a long and honorable tradition of graduates from elite institutions going on to relatively low-compensated careers in public service. The idea that there is only value in attending an elite if you are going to make a lot of money in banking or the tech sector would certainly be met with disdain by many alumni and faculty (past and present).
When doctors stop pulling in the big bucks (and I think that is about to happen), will their jobs be “beneath their ability” because they don’t make as much money as someone who manipulates numbers for marginal profit?
“Barring family and health factors, the sort of ambitious people who attend elite schools usually want to do the most they can with their skills.”
My H is a physician, as is one of his closest friends who also has an elite undergrad degree (in his friend’s case, Amherst). My H happened to choose the path of private practice coupled with some teaching at a university health center; he enjoys direct patient care and teaching / mentoring aspiring physicians and nurse-practitioners / PA’s.
His friend happened to choose a public health path; he is the president / CEO of a community-based health care center, he doesn’t do direct patient care or train other health care professionals, but enjoys helping bring services to the community and interacting with local politicians in this regard.
Which of these is “doing the most with one’s skills”? Does it matter which one of them makes more money?
“There is a long and honorable tradition of graduates from elite institutions going on to relatively low-compensated careers in public service. The idea that there is only value in attending an elite if you are going to make a lot of money in banking or the tech sector would certainly be met with disdain by many alumni and faculty (past and present).”
But we heard from SAY that *everyone at the Harvard parent reunion would be devastated and embarrassed to have a kid become a hs teacher! LOL!
My father is a retired doctor who, in 1969, gave up a lucrative private practice in order to work for a fixed salary at a clinic because the working conditions were better and he could combine patient care with research. I guess he was a big loser, even though he loved his work and was able to provide a perfectly nice life for his family. (added sarc tag)
And my Brown classmate who was a firefighter who lost his life on 9/11 was a loser also?
I can assure you that his family, friends, and fellow public employees remember him as a scholar, a gentleman, and the bravest man most of us have ever known. Fortunately his legacy involves more than his bank account since he died so young trying to save so many.
Ubc you don’t find it upside down that the public workers with minimal education are out earning the graduates from the top schools? Your analysis on the pay is incorrect because many of those workers with the low incomes are not working full time. This situation is not my opinion after all. Why exactly do you think virtually every city in California is headed to bankruptcy. Th situation is even worse in Illinois. I have no distain for public workers but I also think it’s insane and unworkable to provide every single worker with a pension equivalent to between 2-4 million dollars. In the private sector the average grads of the top schools won’t come close. How is this going to work to have relatively uneducated people out earning the doctors, lawyers, and business people with years of education?
Pizza you need to go back and re-read my post. I said the vast majority of parents at the top schools are hoping their children attain jobs commensurate with their education that they enjoy. Isn’t that what you are hoping for?
Blossom your statement sounds like it came from a presidential candidate. I said nothing of the sort and never called anyone a loser. I said that most parents who are paying the tuition at the top 20 colleges have aspirations for their children that go beyond being a school teacher. Being school teachers or firemen is important work but that is not the point. My point remains that a system can’t survive when if you pay 275k for a 55k job or have relatively uneducated people earning more than the graduates of the top colleges. In the end the jobs graduates attain must make sense relative to the cost of the education. If someone has the ability to fly fighter jets it doesn’t make sense to fly a cargo plane. This situation is already playing out in law school and soon will be coming to all higher education.
FYI, not all public sector employees have or can start in their positions with minimal educations. For instance, clerking for a judge…especially at the Federal/Supreme Court levels or working for the DOJ as an attorney while lower paying than comparable biglaw positions ARE ACTUALLY MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE TO GET SELECTED. For many of those positions, graduating from an elite law school isn’t enough…one must also graduate in the top 10% or higher from an elite law school graduating class to be a viable candidate.
There’s also a prestigious payoff not only in terms of networking, but also future career development even if one later decides to go to the private sector…including biglaw. The biglaw firm I worked for gives bonuses and “advanced standing” on the partner track for former judicial clerks.
And this has only become moreso after the 2008 recession.
I wonder, @SAY, what you think about Teach for America and the Ivy kids?
[quote]
Alneada Biggers, Harvard class of 2010, was amazed this past year when she discovered that getting into the nation’s top law schools and grad programs could be easier than being accepted for a starting teaching job with Teach for America.
This year, on its 20th anniversary, Teach for America hired more seniors than any other employer at numerous colleges, including Yale, Dartmouth, Duke, Georgetown and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. At Harvard, 293 seniors, or 18 percent of the class, applied, compared with 100 seniors in 2007.
Teach for America has become an elite brand that will help build a résumé, whether or not the person stays in teaching.
[/quote]
^ that last bit has already been mentioned here as a reason an elite college grad might go into teaching.
No, you didn’t say this. You apparently believe that "commensurability’ = high pay, and that the labor market determines “commensurability.” Do you believe that young adults have failed if they do not make as much money as their parents? The absence of any sense of vocation or calling in your discussion of the value of an education or career is strange to me.
Why do you think that graduating from a “top school” necessarily means that you have to be paid more?
Why do you think that one does not need additional education to become a good fire fighter or police officer? Such education is not of the type that one earns a bachelor’s degree in, but it is education nonetheless.
Also, since you value a fire fighter or police officer at $55k but previously wrote how twice that income was not enough to support oneself, do you think that you can get good public safety workers for your community at $55k?
Bruce Springsteen and Patti Scialfa’s youngest child, Sam, completed a 188 hour course with Monmouth County Fire Academy and then became a volunteer firefighter with Colts Neck . It sounded like a rigorous course and they attended the graduation and Patti proudly posted pictures . Their older kids graduated from BC and Duke. The youngest seems to have started at Bard but not sure if he is finishing or not . They seem very proud of all their kids and the kids are all following different paths. I just saw Springsteen in concert last week so have been thinking of him and The Rising, and 9/11. https://www.yahoo.com/music/bp/bruce-springsteen-son-becomes-firefighter-does-family-proud-183117798.html
Cobrat you are talking about lawyers mostly from top schools so that is a different discussion. Commensurate means commensurate. There are many high level jobs that don’t have huge pay such as a federal judge or the CIA. Another example is the difference between the FBI and being a fireman or regular cop. Typically higher level jobs pay more but that is not always the case. Do you not see a difference between a bus driver and a jet pilot? Do you really think there are many potential pilots driving a bus? Today’s educational system has many faults but it is extraordinarily good at segregating young people based on their intellect and abilities.
Ucb if going to a top school doesn’t result in a different outcome than a HS graduate then how can one justify the cost. Besides the competitive nature of elite admissions shows that the vast majority of people disagree with you. I have two cops in my family and know many others. They are great honorable people but to compare their education with graduates from the top schools is inaccurate. The FBI,CIA, and Treasury employees are examples of well educated public employees and they make a fraction of the public state workers.
"Besides the competitive nature of elite admissions shows that the vast majority of people disagree with you. "
You keep saying this as though it’s compelling. Again, I couldn’t care less if I went to an elite school parent gathering and 95% of them said their primary reason for sending their kid there was to make more money. I’m not the sort of person who changes my values and beliefs by taking a poll. Apparently you are. Tant pis pour vous, as I learned in my fancy schmancy college French class.