<p>Would it be better to attend an elite college like Cornell or JHU and get a 3.6 or 3.7 or attend a state school like Stony Brook or SUNY Buffalo and get a 4.0 (considering that you have the same MCAT's). By "would it be better" I mean would attending a state school (although achieving a 4.0) hinder my chances at elite medical schools like UCSF or Harvard, etc.</p>
<p>(sorry if this was already asked 50x)</p>
<p>Well if grades are the only consideration.......not money, go for the best GPA.</p>
<p>So there really isnt a point to attend Cornell or JHU undergrad if you plan to go into clinical medicine? (I'm discounting the fact that you will have more qualified professors and etc. For now im only considering whether they would help or hinder me from getting into med school)</p>
<p>No, there is no point. Both of those schools are known for harsh and ruthless grading and that's obviously not a good thing when it comes to getting into medical school. It's probably better to go to an easier school, get the better gpa, and get into med school instead of trying to push the limits and winding up with grades so low that you don't get in anywhere (which is not uncommon, btw).</p>
<p>Put it this way......if you want to go to an more difficult school resist the temptation to take Chem/Bio/Physics in your first two years........it is not a good plan. You would need to protect your GPA by taking courses stradled over several semesters and not as a newby with all the other wanna be Docs. Many kids don't make a strategy and end up not going to med school.</p>
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So there really isnt a point to attend Cornell or JHU undergrad if you plan to go into clinical medicine?
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<p>You are making 2 strong assumptions: </p>
<h1>1 - that you really will try to get into med-school. Plenty of people come into college as intended premeds, but then leave the premed process somewhere along the line, because they either find something they like better, or they realize that they're not going to be able to get the grades they will need to get in. If you happen to be one of those people who ends up doing something else, a degree from JHU or Cornell will be more useful than a degree from Stony Brook.</h1>
<h1>2 - That you really will be able to get that 4.0 from Stony Brook. I find this to be the strongest assumption of all. The truth is a lot of formerly strong students become weak during college. They get distracted, they decide that they don't really want to study hard, they find a significant other that they'd rather spend all their time with rather than studying, they find that when their parents aren't watching them closely that they enjoy goofing off, etc. Lots of things can happen.</h1>
<p>The truth is, by going to a school like Stony Brook, you may end up with a LOWER GPA than going to a school like Cornell. Why? Social factors. Human beings are social creatures and tend to copy what they see around them. When you see a lot of students studying hard, you will tend to want to study hard. However when you see a lot of students lounging around, goofing off and doing nothing, you will tend to want to lounge around and goof off too. I've seen it happen. People go to a school that they think they will easily get top grades in, and then end up falling into a bad crowd and becoming lazy. </p>
<p>Furthermore, I would add that you should never bank on getting into a top med-school like Harvard or UCSF. That's like playing the lottery . Plenty of people with stellar stats don't get in to places like that. Just getting into a no-name med school is fine. </p>
<p>Nevertheless I agree that on a high level, having a high GPA is better than having a low GPA for the purposes of med-school admissions.</p>
<p>Wow sakky makes a really good point. As a freshman in college, I see many kids being distracted. With many distracted kids around you, achieving that 4.0 is that much more difficult, and achieving a 4.0 is difficult at ANY school.
Man, sakky is on top of it in every forum.</p>
<p>Again regressing to my previous topic, when all things are considered does it really matter whether I go to a state, community or elite college (again with the broad assumption that I will do best in the state and community colleges). Sakky I understand your message, but Im from one of the most competitive HS's in NYC and I'm used to be self driven; forced to read the book by myself, since I dont derive much from class. I'm just trying to narrow down the variables and the variable that I'm currently focusing on is the influence of schools' caste on med school admissions. Also, Hazmat can you give me an example of a strategy? Thanks again for your responses.</p>
<p>Gregster, the answer to your question, as you have defined it, is there is only a minor significance to where you went to school. Far more important are your grades, not where you got them from.</p>
<p>However, I would still reiterate that plenty of people who were high school superstars who go to college and do poorly. For example I know a guy who was a high school superstar who had the chance to attend a number of elite private schools including MIT, but instead chose to go to Berkeley, mostly to save money, but also because he thought he would do better at Berkeley. Berkeley enticed him with a full-ride Chancellor Scholarship as being one of the very best students of the incoming class. He then promptly proceeded to flunk out. Literally. The problem? Basic immaturity. At Berkeley, he found all these things to do that he enjoyed more than studying, so he basically stopped studying to do those things. Shortly afterwards, he was expelled. Now he still has no college degree and he works as a teller in a banker. These things can happen. </p>
<p>As far as strategies are concerned, you may find the following link interesting. It was written for premeds at Stanford, but it's applicable to any premed. I would especially direct your attention to Myths #10 and 11.</p>
<p>I do agree with sakky about the "surroundings" factor. However, this doesn't really overcome my feeling that a school like Stony Brook is a LOT easier than most top-notch schools. I happen to know quite a few people who are going to schools like Stony Brook (i.e., UNH, Penn State, etc) and they're partying four or five times a week, slacking off extensively, and so on-and they're still all pulling GPAs of 3.5 or higher (one has a 4.0) in difficult majors like engineering. Granted, all state schools are not that easy-try stuff like that at Berkeley, UNC, Michigan, UIUC, etc. and you'll get your ass kicked-but there's no question that most state schools are really quite easy in the grand scheme of things.</p>
<p>However, there is a cutoff for med school admissions when it comes to the quality of the institution you attended. I wouldn't dip far below a flagship state school in these considerations; going to an unknown state school campus (or, god forbid, a community college) will drastically reduce your chances of getting in. To make a long story short: pick a school in the top 100.</p>
<p>A strategy is to limit the number of lab sciences you take in any given semester. I know kids who have taken 2 or 3 and suffered for it. Also do some asking about which courses are graded more stridently.....say to eliminate premed students early on......Chem at some schools, physics at others. Bio is also one. Ask around, inquire about instructors. Don't hop into the science your first semester, allow for some adjustment time. Take some electives to get your feet wet.</p>
<p>Sakky, I really appreciate the link you gave, it was one of the most informative premed links I have ever read (if you have others like it please share them). When the doctor (the author) refers to premed requirements, he makes it seem like taking an upper level course in say chem or bio, does not replace the premed requirement. I found that confusing b/c I thought that if you have credit for a premed coarse, like for an AP class, you can skip it and take an upper level coarse which would satisfy the requirement. Also, what does he mean by "premed requirements which are NOT tested on the MCAT" can be taken after applying to Med school (arent all premed requirements tested on the MCAT except for Calc?)? Another thing that he mentions was that the caliber of the medical school you attend does not have as much influence as how well you do in it for residency placement. I thought that med schools were affiliated with certain residencies which would be unavailable to students who were not from that specific medical school; is this true or is it a myth?</p>
<p>Gregster, obviously I was not the author of the document, so I don't know exactly what he was talking about at every juncture. But I can take a shot. </p>
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When the doctor (the author) refers to premed requirements, he makes it seem like taking an upper level course in say chem or bio, does not replace the premed requirement. I found that confusing b/c I thought that if you have credit for a premed coarse, like for an AP class, you can skip it and take an upper level coarse which would satisfy the requirement.
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<p>I think this is partially answered in Myth #9. The fact is, as the author has said, premed 'requirements' are really just guidelines. </p>
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Also, what does he mean by "premed requirements which are NOT tested on the MCAT" can be taken after applying to Med school (arent all premed requirements tested on the MCAT except for Calc?)?
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<p>What I think the author is really saying here is that you are free to take the MCAT at any time, and in fact, you can take it before you take any premed courses. The truth is, you don't need to take premed courses to prep for the MCAT. Self-study is a tremendously powerful tool. </p>
<p>I know one student who hadn't taken a single premed course in her first 3 years of college and then decided that she wanted to see if she could get into med-school. So she just self-studied for an entire summer, took the MCAT and did well, and only AFTERWARDS did she take the actual premed courses. Her self-study not only allowed her to take the MCAT and do well, but also allowed her to do well in actual premed courses. </p>
<p>I don't recommend this path to everybody, I'm just saying that there is no requirement that you have taken all your premed courses before you take the MCAT. If you think you can handle the MCAT without taking the actual courses, then go for it. Like I said, you really can learn a lot just by getting the books and reading them in your spare time. </p>
<p>Secondly, there really are certain premed requirements that are not tested on the MCAT. Some universities split their labs from their lectures as separate courses. For example, there might be a Organic Chemistry lecture course, and then an Organic Chemistry lab course. If your school does this, then bear in mind that material for the lab classes are rarely if ever tested on the MCAT. Hence, it is quite safe for you to postpone the labs until after you have taken the MCAT, or even after you have already applied to med-school. And there may be a way for you to not take those lab courses at all, as indicated by Myth #9. </p>
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Another thing that he mentions was that the caliber of the medical school you attend does not have as much influence as how well you do in it for residency placement. I thought that med schools were affiliated with certain residencies which would be unavailable to students who were not from that specific medical school; is this true or is it a myth
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<p>It is true that residencies sometimes offer "home-field advantage" to the local med-students. However, what I think the author is trying to say is that #1, this homefield advantage is rarely decisive by itself, and #2, you may realize that you don't want that residency anyway. </p>
<p>The real point is that you should not obsess about trying to get into the elite medical schools. It's obviously nice if you can do it, but it's not something to kill yourself over. What is important is that you get into a medical school and do well there. From a professional standpoint, it's better to be a top-performer at a no-name medical school than to be the worst student at Harvard Medical.</p>
<p>Thanx for the info sakky, although I dont enjoy the generalizations. I doubt a top performer at a no name would be the worst in Harvard. I'm not trying to kill myself over getting into a great med school, I'm just trying to use my resources well.</p>
<p>Well, look, the point is not really that I personally think that the top performer at a no-name school would be the worst at Harvard. Whether I think that will happen or not is irrelevant. The point is that the med-schools will not want to admit anybody who doesn't perform well, regardless of where they went to school. </p>
<p>Perhaps a better example would be an extremely difficult school at MIT. A lot of people at MIT get terrible grades. But the med-schools don't care about that. If you have terrible grades, the med-schools don't care why. They're just going to reject you for having bad grades. Hence, you're better off getting good grades at an easy school than bad grades at a difficult school. This tends to hold even if the MIT guy could have gotten good grades at the no-name school. The med-schools don't care about. They just want to see good grades. Sad but true. </p>
<p>As a corollary, certain majors are also more difficult than others. But med-schools don't really care about that. Med-schools would require admit somebody who got good grades in an easy major than somebody who got bad grades in a difficult major. In other words, med-schools to some extent actually 'reward' academic cowardice. Again, sad but true.</p>
<p>Again, thank you for the info sakky, but I'm speaking on a personal level. Personally, my question asked about the difference btw a 3.6 at a elite school and a 4.0 at something like Stony or Bing (I understand this is a vast assumption, but I need to eliminate some variables to help my decisions). I wasnt talking about failing or getting below a 3.5 at the elite school. I have heard your MIT argument and I agree with you but I'm not applying to MIT or Berkeley.</p>
<p>4.0 at stony with a solid mcat 32+ wins almost everytime</p>
<p>thanx, thats all I wanted to hear :)</p>
<p>edit: one more thing. would you recommend stony over bing?</p>
<p>Without a doubt</p>
<p>My Counselor says there is no easy school.</p>