<p>". . . when you find an oil company ready to hire a history major from Yale to be a petroleum engineer, call me. In the meantime, you are really over-thinking this. Other than a few lunatics on CC, the students aren’t calculating the NPV of their future earning stream at Morgan Stanley."
Exactly.
They are taking what are hands down the most attractive offers for someone with their qualifications.</p>
<p>Don’t make assumptions, bluebayou. Not all elite grads come from money. Besides, whether a little debt or a lot of debt, the loan payments come due a few months after graduation and that is pressure. S’s Ivy was not as generous with FA as HYP, so he did indeed owe a significant but not unreasonable sum–and loans were part of his FA. We were not in a position to help him out, should he not find a job immediately. Remember that many parents have their own PLUS loans to pay off, not to mention other children who need to go to college.</p>
<p>Besides, you have to have Ivy caliber problem-solving abilities to figure out those brain teasers they give you in i-banking interviews. You have 30 seconds to answer this one. You have a 4x4 Rubics cube which you drop in a bucket of paint. Assuming the paint doesn’t leak through the cracks, how many cubes do not have paint on them? </p>
<p>Done that one already? Here’s a few more: </p>
<p>How many ping pong balls fit in a 747?</p>
<p>How many pounds of deli meat are there in all the delis in NYC?</p>
<p>(Just kidding about the Ivy-level abilities. No doubt many ordinary people could do these, even under pressure. Just not me, lol)</p>
<p>^Looks like people need to bone up on their Fermi problems to do well at an i-banking interview.</p>
<p>Too bad I have no idea how big a 747 is.</p>
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<p>I never said that they did. But since you bring it up, the fact is that half of “elite grads” (your term, not mine) are full pay at the Ivy schools; in year’s past, it was two-thirds full pay. So concur, not “all” but again, never said they were. Nor did I imply that they were. </p>
<p>But back to the point…WS: the issue I raised is those that desire jobs on WS, and I challenge the fact that paying off loans is a significant reason. Just my opinion, of course, but it is just as good as anyone one else’s anecdotes (since we have no way of knowing). </p>
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<p>Not sure why you are personalizing this issue. An anecdote of one is not data. :)</p>
<p>brtw: our little company has a different question, ‘how many gas stations are in the US?’</p>
<p>I don’t think all of those kids are doing it to pay off their loans, not my kid and not a lot of her friends. To be frank, my kid is doing it to keep up the kind of life style she has grown accustom to. She knew she wasn’t going to be able to do it by working at a non profit, and I don’t think she would be ashamed to tell anyone that. The plus side is she likes what she is doing.</p>
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<p>I got those same kinds of questions in management consulting interviews, too. And I got different, though equally difficult, questions in corporate industry interviewing to ascertain my strategic thinking. I’m not sure of the point here?</p>
<p>You said: "I seriously doubt that that many Wall Street recruits have much debt, unless they signed up with Stern (since NYU does not meet full need).</p>
<p>But the broader point is likely incorrect. There are too many 18-year-olds, who apply to Wharton, Ross, Stern, Haas, et al, longing for a job on WS. They have zero debt, and come from sheltered, lives."</p>
<p>Zero debt, sheltered lives…sounds like you’re saying most of them come from money. I’m not trying to generalize S’s experience, but just mentioned it to draw attention to the fact that loans are/were part of the FA at some Ivies, and therefore you can’t assume that just because someone attended an Ivy they are loan-free–even if it’s only 1/3 of the student body.</p>
<p>The interviewers must have appreciated your competitive nature, PG. </p>
<p>There was no point–just a diversion and light-hearted explanation of why the firms recruit at the Ivies. They want to increase their chances of finding people who can think like that.</p>
<p>Blue, when I recruited for a bank we had to advance kids the $15 they’d need to take the train to get to an interview. (there were candidates who simply had no money above what they’d budgeted for their living expenses that month.) I had a slush fund to help kids get to the airport (we bought the ticket and prepaid the hotels but ground transportation was the candidate’s responsibility- we paid them back of course but it could take a few weeks and some kids were living on razor thin margins.) Not every kid at an elite university has parents who can say, ‘Oh sure, we can put another 100 bucks in your account this month’ and I think your assumptions are rather cruel.</p>
<p>If you believe every thread on CC you read about kids dying to go to Wharton… and actually believe those kids end up doing that, well, I have a bridge to sell you. yes, all the kids who aren’t becoming premed or getting a PhD in something that requires “original research” as an undergrad or heading off to a T-14 law school because they’re sure they can get a 175 on an LSAT that won’t take for another 3 years… yeah, sure.</p>
<p>You’re the one who has to get out more. These are kids for god’s sake. What do they know?</p>
<p>So what would you tell someone who is going to Stern this fall?
I am going to NYU Stern this fall as a freshman. My family would not qualify for financial aid, and I am very lucky I don’t have to take out loans. This doesn’t mean I am entitled or stuck-up.</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily know if I want to go to Wall Street, but its something I find interesting. Right now, I am equally interested in more corporate or non-profit jobs as well. I plan to double major in a science, something I believe is possible, because it could help bolster my job prospects, would add “rigor” to what some believe is a soft degree, and to give me an entirely different career if I really wanted to. </p>
<p>While the money is obviously great, the main reason I decided to go to Stern, instead of pursuing maybe engineering or pre-med, is because I am very interested in this.</p>
<p>Blossom, my college student freaked out the other day when the credit card the bank issued her to pay for her interview travel expenses was rejected by the taxi driver. What made it worse was they had switched her to an airport much farther away from their office to save on airfare, so it was a long ride which cost a lot. She will be reimbursed eventually, but was stressing about covering for that sum in the meantime LOL.</p>
<p>Sorry, the GFG, didn’t mean to jump!</p>
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<p>I question the “hands down” part. It depends on what the individual finds most attractive.</p>
<p>Oldfort’s daughter and my daughter graduated at the same time from the same college and have very similar qualifications. Oldfort’s daughter chose Wall Street because she likes the work and the extraordinary salary that she earns. That’s what was most attractive to her. My daughter chose a job in a different industry, in a different city, with a more modest (but still adequate) salary. She also likes her work (which is very different from Oldfort’s daughter’s work) and she likes having a job where the hours are reasonable enough that she can also spend time doing other things (including sleeping). And she likes the fact that her job is considered good preparation for the graduate program she intends to pursue later.</p>
<p>Different strokes for different folks.</p>
<p>Kids who are impressive enough to work on Wall Street also have other good options. Some of them choose those other options.</p>
<p>And even though they’re kids, some of them know what they’re doing. Oldfort’s daughter does. And so does my daughter.</p>
<p>Since my post from yesterday, I am officially on garden leave. I will have a lot of time to post on CC for the next 2 months, getting paid and can’t work for anyone. During these 2 months I am suppose to forget everything I have ever known about my old employer (I think I could do that in less than 24 hours). I am going to need a hobby.</p>
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Is this a trick question? How can you have a 4x4 cube? j/k</p>
<p>I’m horrible at brain teasers. I’m glad I never had to answer any for an interview. Or solve a Rubik’s cube for that matter.</p>
<p>McKinsey actually has the exams they give on line somewhere and those are actually reasonably interesting.</p>
<p>Marian, my reference was to the 16 year olds who post on CC to ask, “Which is better for a career on Wall Street- an MBA from Wharton or an MBA from U Chicago?” Almost as clueless as the kids who post, “I can’t decide between being pre-med at JHU or at U Michigan. Michigan might be better because then I’ll have a 3.8 GPA no problem but is JHU that much more prestigious?”</p>
<p>Obviously, young people who are employed aren’t clueless. But the younger ones who have no idea what M&A is or what Valuation is or what a hedge fund is (but they know they want to do it) are quite clueless. So to look at their posts and conclude that the rest of us here “glorify” (which I think was the word) Wall Street is also… well, clueless.</p>
<p>GFG- I’m sure your D was stressed out about the card. We sometimes use loaded debit cards now for candidates to use for interview incidentals and it’s an imperfect system. Nothing works quite as well as a ten dollar bill in an emergency, no?</p>
<p>Hope she got there safely; that’s what counts.</p>