<p>I just found out that my S has been cheating while going through the BB tests (following along with answers online) for the past 6 months. Right now I could rip his head off!</p>
<p>However, I still expect him to support me when I get old, so I am still invested in him learning and preparing as best he can for the PSAT in Oct. (he will be a jr.) and the SAT in the spring 2012. Many of the schools we have identified for him will depend on whether he can get a NMF qualifying score.</p>
<p>So, his soph yr he scored 179. Of course I have no idea how much he might have learned, if he learned anything at all, while going through the motions the last 6 months. Right now he is taking a complete test, sans computer, so I can know better where he stands. I will get a new BB since the current copy has been written in, and we already have the CB online supplemental tests printed off.</p>
<p>I am asking for input from you all with regard to studying and prep strategies for the next couple of months. Currently I am in punishment mode, but I know I need to be realistic with regard to his prep. Not counting camps and days out of town, we have about 13 weeks to work with before the PSAT. I am planning on him devoting 2-3 hours per day to prep (partly to make up for the last 6 months he wasted - and also as punishment). But clearly there aren't enough tests to do one every day. I am going to have him spend some of that time reading and would love to hear input from CCers about possible books to read, too. Right now I have Walden, Musicophilia by Oliver Sacks (kid likes music), and the Einstein biography (kid has physics next year and I found the bio interesting). I would love to have him read Ayn Rand, but I don't think he would appreciate it at this point.</p>
<p>I think you are way over reacting; 2-3 hours a day of PSAT prep sounds terrible.</p>
<p>Anyway, I’d advise you to look over last year’s PSAT scores and see what he needs to work on, and analyse his strengths and weaknesses. If, for example, he’s close to perfect on math, don’t waste time on that.</p>
<p>I’m with Missypie. I think you’re over reacting. I also think you’re putting a lot of stress on your kid if he thinks he has to be a NMSF. Have you looked at the curves for any PSAT’s? The curve is very unforgiving and the difference between NMSF and not can be very few questions. What state are you in? The highest state cutoffs seem to be about 223-225 (I think) while the lowest are in the low 200’s</p>
<p>Did he do any questions on his own? He can also learn something by following along with the answers. In the SAT/ACT forum many people use the Xiggi method or Silverturtle method for studying if they can’t or don’t want to do a prep course.</p>
<p>There are “SAT novels” on amazon which specialize in SAT words. A lot of people also like Direct Hits for vocabulary. I don’t think specific books will help at this point. However, if he’s been a lifelong reader that’s a big plus. Why not just let him pick some books he would enjoy?</p>
<p>2-3 hours a day for the next 13 weeks seems like a lot to me, especially if you’re forcing your kid to do it.</p>
<p>When you say that many of the schools you have identified for him depend on NMSF status, do you mean they give substantial merit aid for NMSF and he could not attend without this merit aid? Will you qualify for any need based aid?</p>
<p>I’m not quite sure how he cheated. Are you saying he was supposed to be doing Blue Book tests but found the answers online instead? (Sorry - it’s been a long time since my kids did SAT prep and they just used a pencil. :)) Was he enrolled in some kind of class, or was he working on his own? How much time was he supposed to spend on SAT prep as a sophomore - and was he at all on board with the decision to prep? Many sophomores, particularly boys, aren’t willing to spend much time on the far-off goal of doing well on the PSAT during October of junior year. So, if he was more or less pushed into doing extensive prep, I can understand that he might have felt resentful and decided to coast as much as possible.</p>
<p>I agree with missypie - 2-3 hours of test prep seems like an over-reaction to me, and could conceivably backfire if the kid decides he’s just not going to cooperate. I don’t blame you at all for being annoyed - no one likes it when their kids lie about (or even finesse) what they’re doing. But I think this is an opportunity to find out what he wants w/r/t college and how hard he is willing to work to get there. We can see what our kids need to do to post a great SAT score, but we can’t make that happen ourselves.</p>
<p>I would tread very carefully using study/prep as a means of punishment. This could seriously backfire in the next two years. I would also caution you in trying to make up for lost time. You simply can’t shove 6 months into 13 weeks, nor should you. Please understand this is coming from someone who is very adamant against lying and deception. Address it, absolutely, but I would not tie it to study time as you don’t want them to see studying as a form of punishment. There will be a lot of studying over the next two years and your student will get little out of it if he is an unwilling participant.</p>
<p>I would carefully consider a few things. First find out what the NMF cut off has been in your state for the last few years. Then consider if a jump from 179 to the NMF score is a reasonable goal. You can also consider your students past academic performance as potential, however an A student does not always equal a top tester, nor does a C student mean a mediocre tester. I would think of the studying over the next thirteen weeks like training an athlete. There is only so much you can squeeze into one day and it’s best to rotate the parts of the brain that you work. Just like an athlete, days to rest are very important.</p>
<p>You know your student best and certainly can make good decisions for him. Best of luck to him in the coming months!</p>
<p>note: I crossed posts with a few others here (I’m so slow!!), but I think we are all sending a similar message.</p>
<p>FWIW, When my son was in heavy duty self-prep mode he committed to about 90min a day. He rotated subjects. On days he took practice tests that’s all he did because it was a big chunk of time</p>
<p>However, I still expect him to support me when I get old, so I am still invested in him learning and preparing as best he can</p>
<p>Are you serious that you’re expecting him to support you when you get old?</p>
<p>If so, I think that is what the basis of this situation is. If you think your son is going to (or supposed to) support you , then you’ve become super highly-invested into making him into some super-stats, high achieving, highly paid person so that supporting you will not be a noticeable financial burden to his future family. As in…well if he’s some million-dollar earning surgeon, he can easily pay my rent and food bill. </p>
<p>I am planning on him devoting 2-3 hours per day to prep</p>
<p>Anyway…if you’re just making jokes about the support thing, then you’re still being ridiculous about the studying. Either your child has what it takes to make NMF or he doesn’t. A bit of studying helps, but 2-3 hours a day could be counter-productive. He may just find ANOTHER way to cheat. </p>
<p>His soph score is high enough to suggest that he “might” score high enough as a junior to make NMSF if he gets whatever is high enough in your state. However, even with studying that may not happen. Some kids barely make any increase…some kids’ scores go down. :(</p>
<p>Maybe you should focus on supporting yourself when you get old (saving up for retirement is a good start) and let your son live his own life. How can he possibly be passionate about learning and growing as a person when you are cramming all this useless PSAT studying down his throat? I think you seriously have your priorities messed up!</p>
<p>What schools has he identified for himself? As parents, we can dream, hope and wish that our children will want to go to certain schools and that they will get the scores/grades/recs/activities to be accepted at those schools. But our children need input in the choices and they are the ones in control.</p>
<p>2 to 3 hours a day seems obssessive to me. And not a guarantee by any means that he can turn a 179 PSAT into a NM quality score. How about 1 hour a day of “college prep.” That can be PSAT testing, doing searches for schools that fit his interests, visiting websites. And two hours a day volunteering somewhere.</p>
<p>I agree with the other posters here who believe that you are overreacting and your form of punishment is extreme. Lighten up, or you kid may burn out before he even reaches college…</p>
<p>For SAT vocabulary you do not need them to read specific books, just read for fun. My daughter is an avid reader and at that age she was into Harry Potter and other young adult series. She received an 800 score on her second SAT test, with NO test prep!!</p>
<p>Also, you need to adjust your expectations. It would be great if he gets a NMF qualifying score, but he may not, and you need to mentally deal with this possibility. His life wont end, he will still go to college, you may just have to choose colleges based on the actual scores. A 179 PSAT score loosly converts to a 1790 SAT score, and that may be what he ends up with. Love the kid on the couch…</p>
<p>My younger son went from 187 to 206 sophomore to junior PSAT score, not good enough for NMF in our state. That was fine, since none of the schools he was interested in had NMF scholarships. He still got at least one good merit offer based on SAT scores and grades. Just to say you are expecting a pretty big jump.</p>
<p>Older sons scores were barely better junior year than sophomore year (4 points), but then his scores both years were well above the NYS cutoff.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t do 2-3 hours test prep a day - I do think reading is a fine way to prepare. Both my kids had great CR scores thanks in large part I think to the amount of reading they do. I don’t think it matters much what you read. My younger son had a project to read all of the Star Wars books, (he read about 40 summer before junior year and another 40 summer before senior year) he also likes military flavored sci fi by David Weber too. Older son reads computer manuals and sci fi and fantasy. Orson Scott Card, Lois McMasters Bujold, Beth Hilgartner, CJ Cheryh, and Steven Brust are all favorite authors. They both like reading articles in Scientific American. Younger son also gets Air and Space.</p>
<p>He’ll get a lot more brownie points from colleges if he spends this summer doing something they consider worthwhile like getting a job or volunteering.</p>
<p>This Is deeply concerning…are you actually placing your future well-being and your son’s ability to take care of you on his PSAT score? If I were you, I would seriously re-evaluate your priorities and goals. And no, I am not the parent of an under-achiever, or an under-achiever myself. You can see my chance threads if you want to know how I have done in high school and on the SATs. My high school career has been entirely self-motivated, and I believe any involvement on my parents’ part would only have been counter-productive. PLEASE do not make your son feel like he needs to get a high score on his PSATs or else you will be miserable later in life.</p>
<p>Thank you all. I am attempting to calm down. Unfortunately, the practice test he just took yielded a score approximate (albeit a bit lower) to that of his PSAT test. What really ****es me off is that his cheating tests really got my hopes up that he was learning and could really score well. Now we’ve wasted 6 months where he could have been making some progress.</p>
<p>Oh well. I will revise my 2-3 hour/day plan and have him read aloud all the Xiggi and Silverturtle stuff he supposedly read before but clearly didn’t. I will also look into some good vocab bldg books for him to spend some time with.</p>
<p>Our situation is that we have not saved for college. He can go for free where I teach, but we don’t have an engineering program. The plan was for him to get a tuition exchange (the program my school is a part of) scholarship and go to WPI or RIT on full tuition. Several other schools on the list offer scholarships but there are dramatically fewer of them offered and it doesn’t seem like he will be competitive now. Some other schools on the list offer great NMF scholarships (like Drexel). We will not qualify for FAFSA type aid. I only got my hopes up about the NMF schools because his practice tests had been so great.</p>
<p>He was cheating by following along online with the Blue Book tests which you can score question-by-question rather than having to enter all the scsores and get the results at the end.</p>
<p>Thanks for the support - those of you who provided it. Go figure, psychologists get ****ed, too.</p>
<p>We are not seriously counting on him to support us. We do just fine, thank you, and have our retirement secure.</p>
<p>I truly love the kids on the couch. Perhaps that is why I am disappointed and concerned. I should have known better than to post when I was mad. My son is an awesome kid, for whom I only want the best.</p>
<p>I will take the well-intentioned advice and leave the haters behind. Thanks.</p>
<p>He just finished his sophomore year of high school and you are planning on him supporting you in old age? Your priorities need a shift. You need to figure out how you are going to take care of you in your old age. He will make his way. Your son would be better setting himself up for future growth if he can find a small job this summer or if he takes that 2-3 hours and devotes it to his junior year class grades starting in the fall. Reading is good if your son likes to read. My oldest loves to read and I made sure he was kept in books when he was younger.</p>
<p>I hate lying with a passion. I do not respond well to any lying, shading the truth, etc. I would be furious about the lying.</p>
<p>That being said, do you think he this might have been a reaction to feeling tremendous pressure? Still not tolerable in my book, but you might want to think about how he is handling the pressure of scoring high enough to make the scholarship cutoff/financial aid needs. Is there an alternative avaliable–maybe attend the college where you teach for two years (taking general ed, prerequistes, etc), living at home, then transfer?</p>
<p>I am right there with you on the lying. Hate it, do not tolerate it in any form, black, grey, any shade one can throw at me. I appreciate your passion of response so it’s okay by me. Regroup, rethink, and move on allowing yourself the frustration. You are entitled no matter your profession. What matters is how you go from here, not how you blew your top initially. Your son will deal with being fussed at.</p>
<p>As you regroup try to find a realistic plan for financial safeties for engineering. This is what your goal was with NMF essentially (although it wasn’t really an academic safety). So, find an academic/financial safety then use the NMF schools as reach options if he does meet that goal. He won’t feel so much pressure if he has a safety.</p>
<p>My son had a major within engineering that not all schools offer. The two schools in our state that offer them are fairly competitive. The BEST thing I helped him do was research and find a financial and academic safety that he would be happy attending. We put more effort into finding that school, and making sure it was a decent fit, then the effort we put into the other schools. He really felt better about the entire process knowing he had that one in his back-pocket. It also had rolling admissions so he had an early admit to boot. The other decisions were sweet, however he knew early on that there was a school we could pay for that he would be happy attending that wanted him. It was pretty darn nice in the dull-dreary months of applications, studying for the last SAT2’s, and waiting for other schools.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son, and big hugs to you mom!!</p>
<p>My daughter would have a meltdown if I told her she had to study like that for the act this fall. She will be studying but not that much. Please don’t take this the wrong way but I would be worried about a kid who diligently does whatever mom and dad says. His subversive actions give me hope he has a good streak in him and won’t be bullied around. </p>
<p>Good luck. I need to get my daughter to study sometime this summer too and she is about as motivated as a slug. And we are in the position of needing merit scholarships too…</p>
<p>My D (rising senior) took the May SAT and scored 1860, which was a significant improvement from last fall’s PSAT, and done without so much as taking a look at a prep book. “That’s good enough, I’m not going to take it again,” she said.</p>
<p>I pointed out to her that an 1860 puts her right at the 25 percentile mark of the reach schools that SHE has selected. Her response: “I guess I’d better get a book and study it and take the test again in the fall,” which she did and is doing.</p>
<p>Could I have decided she’s going to take it again, put the hammer down, and locked her in her room an hour a day with a prep book? Sure. I still control the car keys.</p>
<p>You’re the psychologist, so tell me: under which scenario is real learning more likely?</p>
Please don’t take this the wrong way but I would be worried about a kid who diligently does whatever mom and dad says. His subversive actions give me hope he has a good streak in him and won’t be bullied around. </p>