<p>We’re Facebook friends. She’s class of 2013. We talked on the chat thing for like 3 hours.</p>
<p>Please check out the economics course descriptions at The King’s. To put it mildly, they are a joke. These courses would have been fine at the turn of the 19th century for a “political economy” major, but they won’t prepare you at all for econ at the master’s level in today’s world. No intermediate or advanced micro or macro, no money and banking, no econometrics, . . . There just isn’t anything there.
[The</a> King’s College - Course Descriptions](<a href=“http://www.tkc.edu/academics/coursedescriptions/course_descriptions2.asp?department=ECO]The”>http://www.tkc.edu/academics/coursedescriptions/course_descriptions2.asp?department=ECO)</p>
<p>Half of your credits (twenty mandatory courses) at the King’s are predetermined for you in the “core curriculum”. You won’t have to agonize over selecting what classes you will take your freshman year. It has already been done for you:</p>
<p>Course Year Term Title Credits
YEAR 1 CREDITS
POL 110 1 Fall Introduction to Politics* 3
ENG 110 1 Fall College Writing I 3
HIS 111 1 Fall History of the West I 3
REL 112 1 Fall Introduction to Old Testament 3
URB 110 1 Fall Introduction to the City* 3
Fall Total 15
ECO 110 1 Spring Introduction to Economics* 3
ENG 120 1 Spring College Writing II (ENG 110) 3
HIS 112 1 Spring History of the West II 3
REL 111 1 Spring Introduction to New Testament Literature 3
PHL 110 1 Spring Logic* 3
Spring Total 15
YEAR 1 CREDITS 30</p>
<p>I hate to see such a bright kid subjected to this kind of intellectual regimentation and narrow range of options in a highly competitive major like economics. I know you are in a tough spot. But you will not even begin to achieve your academic potential at such a school. You would be far more stimulated just living at home for a year and going to IUPUI or even taking a gap year if you can’t lower yourself to attend an IU regional campus or if going there would ruin your chances to reapply for four-year scholarships at much better schools.</p>
<p>This Fall, I will be pursuing a PhD in a quant-heavy business field that relies heavily on econometrics and microeconomics at a [Top</a> 15](<a href=“http://somweb.utdallas.edu/top100Ranking/searchRanking.php?t=n]Top”>http://somweb.utdallas.edu/top100Ranking/searchRanking.php?t=n) private university. I graduated from Georgia Tech, a large public university. If you want to pursue a Masters in Economics, it’s OK for TKC to not offer intermediate micro / macro and econometrics, but it is unacceptable if they do not offer linear algebra and real analysis, which they [appear</a> not to](<a href=“http://www.tkc.edu/academics/coursedescriptions/course_descriptions2.asp?department=MAT]appear”>http://www.tkc.edu/academics/coursedescriptions/course_descriptions2.asp?department=MAT). Their MAT 140 seems like a survey course that covers a lot of material without delving very deeply into any of the topics.</p>
<p>I lived with roommates for three years, and I had to endure a horrible second year because I roomed with very reactive suitemates who would do the opposite of what I suggested just so they could spite me. (Of course, I am to blame for intruding into others’ lives when I did not have the right.) And so, yes, where you want to go is UP TO YOU. It is your life, therefore it is your choice and no one else’s. But as one who will have to take PhD-level micro and econometrics, I can tell you that TKC provides neither the econ nor the math background necessary to succeed in those classes.</p>
<p>What if I wanted to go to law school after undergrad (which was my original plan, actually). They seem to have fairly decent political courses.</p>
<p>And, a lot of “getting in” to law school are your LSAT scores.</p>
<p>In that sense, if you really want to go TKC and live in NYC as an undergrad, it could be alright. Do you just want to go to law school, or do you want to go to an elite law school?</p>
<p>Well, I wanted to go to NYU law school. But I’m just so sick and tired of them.
I either want to go to Georgetown or Columbia… probably. But I havent done my law school research yet. Thats far away.</p>
<p>I was thinking the same thing as calmom about TKC being a cultish type school. They work on the honor code but they do have very strict rules which you can read in their student handbook. There are consequences when you break the honor code. You have to wear business casual attire. Jeans can only be worn on Fridays. No opposite sex for overnight guest.
Makes me think of Hogwarts and also the movie, Scent of a Woman.</p>
<p>Many years ago, I was friends with someone who attended King’s in the 1980s. The school closed because of financial problems and apparently ‘re-opened’ in 1999. Anyway, during the time it was closed, she said she couldn’t get official transcripts sent and once went out there-- only to find abandoned old file cabinets with student records. I wasn’t sure this was the same King’s College (that one was in Westchester) but, according to the website, it looks like it is.</p>
<p>Anyway, I known several people who’ve attended small Christian colleges with and without accreditation. They are usually not aiming for top-level secular law schools. They are more likely to want to continue in schools that share their point of view or to have a different set of aspirations (teaching, working in ministry).</p>
<p>Again, I’m glad you’re visiting. It is your life and you may find this fits you exactly… but, in light of their history, I do wonder about their current financial strength.</p>
<p>My impression of King – from the web site – is that it is the type of very unusual school that a small number of students might absolutely love – so I can see why some students might be very happy to be there. Kind of like Deep Springs – my son was fascinated by them in high school – and I was thinking he had to be nuts. (My son was NOT the outdoors type and almost all of his friends were female… so he never seemed even remotely the Deep Springs type).</p>
<p>But the point is that I’m guessing that either a person arrives at King and is delighted that he/she has finally found their place… or else they are absolutely appalled and can’t get out of there fast enough. To me, it looks likes more like a high school than a college – but it may draw a significant number of students who have been homeschooled, and so for those students – learning in a structured environment in a group setting with students from different parts of the country might be a big change. They do seem to have a lot of geographic diversity --though almost no ethnic diversity – and my impression that a lot of students are from smaller communities rather than large city. </p>
<p>Ironically, I think that the place might be quite a challenge to Stohare’s mindset and way of thinking – because he seems to be aiming for a career in wall street finance, and probably has big firms in mind with the possibility of law school. I don’t know what is hype on the site and what is reality, but if I give credence to the promotional material, then Stohare could enroll and find a him surrounded by students and profs with a very different mindset, students who want to focus on social good and in pursuit of their religious values. So – whether or not it would be an academic challenge – it could challenge him in very different ways. I mean… he seems like a kid who is thinking about his future career in terms of earning capacity, and he may find himself in a place that is focused on thinking of careers in terms of values and social impact. </p>
<p>I do think we have to get away from the value judgment and let him draw his own conclusions after visiting. I hope he will take the time to visit some other NY area campuses, whether or not they have current openings — I do think that he plans to visit Pace, which is a very different environment. </p>
<p>Anyway – he has asked for our input… but in the end he has to decide where his own life path will lead.</p>
<p>Yeah, it will surely be different. A visit will do good. And I’m visiting Pace next Thursday, which is a more normal school of what I’m looking for.</p>
<p>Oh! I didn’t realize that the old King’s College from Briarcliff had risen from the ashes (literally…Briarcliff Manor burned down after the college closed). This school has definitely had it’s share of problems! I remember seeing pictures on the web taken of the interior of the abandoned Manor and, as I recall, the author made mention of some student records being left! Here’s more of the story of the old King’s College:</p>
<p>[Briarcliff</a> Lodge and The Kings College](<a href=“Hudson Valley Ruins: Contact Rob Yasinsac”>Briarcliff Lodge and The Kings College)</p>
<p>It’s a Christian college. Resurrection works well for them.</p>
<p>@Calmom, LOL!</p>
<p>Yep, Pace is out of the picture. Their scholarship was good ($15,000), but not enough to make it easy to pay. I could probably afford it. But that would just leave my family with no extra money… and I’d feel bad.</p>
<p>Is going to a CUNY or SUNY out of the question?</p>
<p>Since law school is in your future, then surely minimizing loans is a good thing.</p>
<p>If you can go to a CUNY for two years and then transfer to NYU, that is a way to make things possibly work. I know a young lady who has a full ride at Hunter and she is transfering to NYU this fall. She will need to get her residence requirements in line so, I think 2 years there is what she’ll need, but she is looking to get it reduced to 3 semesters, since she can make her degree requirements in that time. Since she spent little during the two years at Hunter, she and her parents can come up with about half of NYU’s whopping $60K cost. She is reducing that by taking the cheapest room, no meal plan–keeping food costs low, borrowing books and working. Still she and her parents will be borrowing $30K for her to realize her dream. It will be scrimp, scrimp, scrimp all the way after two years of not having to be very careful about costs since Hunter was so generous.</p>
<p>You can also work and save, taking a gap year, writing NYU every month reminding them of what you are doing and how you need the money to go to NYU next year. Scrimp and save, scrimp and save. You might be able to go the year without taking outrageous loan amounts, then take another gap year and do the same. Also summer courses are cheaper than regular year courses, so you can get a year, maybe more of courses there, and also transfer in some state/comm college courses to bring your years to NYU down to 2-2 1/2 years.</p>
<p>Hi stohare,</p>
<p>I really want to encourage you to find a place that is affordable and has a strong array of classes. Many many many local affordable public universities will fit this short list of criteria. If you have the talent and drive, these colleges will get you where you want to go in life. Really!</p>
<p>While “lesser ranked” publics like CUNY or SUNY might not have that sparkly draw, and while they may not be catering to your absolute fullest potential, the reality is that MOST kids are not headed off to the Ivies and other big name places like NYU.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I dont think any more CUNY schools are taking applicants? Correct me if I am wrong, please.</p>
<p>Depends on the type of application you have. For degree seeking students in a program, many if not most or all are full. But many of the schools will let you take classes there , and you can get your app in order for the next term.</p>
<p>Stohare is an Illinois resident, so at this point CUNY probably wouldn’t work - I think he’d be on the hook for tuition and housing. </p>
<p>I do think that post #377 raises a very strong point about a strong “array of classes” – especially in terms of considering future possibility and/or likelihood of transfer. My son attended an LAC with many non-traditional, interdisciplinary classes. When he transferred, it was hard to get credit for many of these to fulfill general ed requirements at the transfer school. For example, he had a first year writing class focused on topics related to the history biology. My daughter had something similar at her college – she took a writing class focused on history & science topics as well. But whereas my d’s class was clearly labeled as being part of the first-year writing sequence – my son’s class was not. By the title it looked like it was a intro course for biology --though it was not a lab science and would not have provided the appropriate foundation for that. So 4 years after having completed the course, my son was needing to dig up the course syllabus and contact the professor in order to avoid being required to take another introductory, freshman writing course as a junior transfer. </p>
<p>I think very often an interdisciplinary course can be a tremendous learning experience and I certainly see the value of college students being encouraged to apply writing skills to disciplines other than English literature. But it certainly can run up costs down the line if, after transferring, the student needs to make up a lot of basic stuff that ordinarily would be covered during the first 2 years of a more traditional college program. </p>
<p>You still have to look what you are getting for your money. A cheaper route to something that does not have equivalent value is not really saving any money. </p>
<p>If the goal is: liberal arts education, leading to bachelor’s degree, then its possible that the King’s program might take a student where they want to go. They will get the degree in the end, and assuming that each class delivers at least what is promised, they probably will learn something along the way.</p>
<p>If the goal is: job on wall street – its hard for me to see how a King student would possibly be competitive with a student majoring in economics or business from any traditional college, from CUNY to Columbia.</p>
<p>If the goal is: apply to top school – it is again hard for me to see how the King’s College student is in any way competitive. On the other hand, if the goal is (a) get bachelor’s degree, (b) get job that is not too demanding, (c) get law degree from night school – then maybe King would supply the requisite bachelor’s degree required down the line for entry into a non-competitive law program. </p>
<p>But I really do think that this future econ/finance major needs to look long and hard at the notion of opportunity costs. Bottom line, there is a lot missing from the equation here.</p>
<p>I do think that even at this stage of the game, there is probably a workable solution. But unfortunately I don’t think it is to be found in New York City. </p>
<p>My advice to Stohare would be to take a gap year, regroup, and try to apply to a college anywhere in the US for the 2011 term, focusing on colleges likely to offer good merit aid. Need-based aid is too unpredictable with the complexity of his family situation. If he focuses on merit money, then he doesn’t have to worry about the impact of his earnings during the gap year.</p>