emory and vandy

Colleges and Universities A-Z Emory University
1

<p>Hey all,</p>

<p>So I got into vandy and emory as a junior transfer and I accepted emory, but I'm immediately regretting my decision. Im much more loud and school spirited but want a academically rigorous environment and I realized that balance is more present at vandy. Vandy kids either seem to be neutral or love the school and emory kids seem to be ok with it or hate it there. Also, I've heard that the preppy stereotype at vandy isnt true, and even if it is, it doesnt really bother me. My parents also disrespected the fact that emoey fudged the admission data to climb rankings, but that didnt bother me too much (though vandy ranks higher this year regardless). Vandy also has everyone living together that keeps a tight knit community and its also a closed campus which I like. </p>

<p>I called admissions begging them to allow me to submit the deposit but they said no. So heres the choices that im left with.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Stay at my old school and transfer again (but stay at vandy for 5th year even if I get in because I need to be there a minimum of 4 semesters to get a degree. Thats what admissions suggested)</p></li>
<li><p>Go to emory and apply as a transfer again. </p></li>
<li><p>Go to emory and stay there.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I understand that many people on this forum always talk about job prospects and stuff, but that doesnt really concern me. I feel like both nashville and atlanta have a lot to offer and with my majors in both neuroscience and business, I want to go into consulting anyway. I hear both HOD at peabody and BBA at goizueta get students into consulting just fine. Im also thinking of going into a JD/MBA program. But I still feel like undergrad only comes once in your life and I really want to enjoy it to the fullest.</p>

<p>So if any of you can comment on what option I should take, dispel any lack of social "rah rah" spirit rumors at grad schools (any. Not just vandy or emory), or tell me more about emorys school spirit (or lack of) so that I can feel better about going there or decide to stay there, that would be greatly appreciated. </p>

2

<p>No idea where you’re applying from, but:</p>

<ol>
<li>If you’re only going to be at a school for two years, it doesn’t have to be your soul mate.</li>
<li>It will take you three years to finish a BBA at Emory, since you will need to finish a year in the College before you can apply to the business school, which will take three additional years.</li>
<li>Emory’s a great school. If you don’t want to be here, don’t come.</li>
<li>US News determined that the incorrect data did not affect the rankings.</li>
</ol>

3

<p>I guess thats true. I’m know I sound super pro-vandy right now but its not that I dont like emory, its that I have concerns based on the rumors that ive heard and I wanted to know how true they were (i.e. about school spirit and ive read on some other threads that emory people are apathetic because the school was just an ivy backup while at vandy it was their top choice so people seem happier. Again, I just want to know how true all these stories are, im not startinf a thread to purposely bash emory)</p>

<p>As for the bba, ive already spoken with goizueta and theyre letting me bypass a lot of the bba core and take some of the core now (even though I have to apply at the end of the year. I guess they just think its my risk if I dont get in and spend all that time in biz classes) so ill be done in 2.</p>

<p>What my parents meant by USNWR is not that the rankings are inaccurate, but that this could be a sign that the university has a dishonest administration or is not as professional or something like that (but like I said, it doesnt bother me too much)</p>

4

<p>Who cares? Seriously, get over it because Emory may be better academically (or at least has a richer academic environment if you actually value learning/engaging in your academic work as much as socializing) than Vanderbilt based on my investigation on course offerings, curriculum structure throughout departments, course website content, and the fact that we have SAT’s 100 points or more below them and got more Fulbright Scholars this past cycle (and had more or similar amounts in past cycles) so get real. The latter thing makes it so obvious to me that the schools are not remotely the same. In addition, if you’re going to the b-school, that’s the most spirited and “fun” entity. I think you’ll live. Though I am always concerned about those who come to Emory who care more about school spirit than the academic environment (as opposed to a “true” balance,not the ones Vanderbilt students allude to). I feel as if they won’t get the most out of the experience because they are looking for the wrong things or at least are not looking for things that could be really great for them.</p>

5

<p>“Though I am always concerned about those who come to Emory who care more about school spirit than the academic environment”</p>

<p>I appreciate your concern, but many students look for different things when searching for an undergraduate institution with a great fit and for me, school spirit is a high consideration on MY list for searching colleges (though it may not be for everyone, which is perfectly fine). Despite the fact that I am looking for a school who is very passionate and is “rah rah” (as many CCers say), I most definitely don’t (and will not) compromise my academic drive so please don’t make presumptions statements about your so called “concerns” because you don’t like the fact that some students place school spirit on higher or of equal importance as a rigorous academic curriculum. I think that there are schools that have both, the it doesn’t have to go one way or the tohe</p>

<p>“Who cares? Seriously, get over it”</p>

<p>well I do, I started this thread in order to get information about potential inaccuracies about Emory that have been cycling in CC, but if they are deemed to be true, then perhaps vanderbilt is the better university for me. If you don’t care and you believe the world shouldn’t either, then you are fully entitled to your opinion, but I am just saying as the OP, this thread did not begin so that you can tell everyone that they should get over it or care about things that are only seemingly important to you.</p>

6

<p>Why did you accept Emory in the first place when your heart is somewhere else? </p>

<p>You can’t go wrong with either school. They’re on par in every regard except the student body’s school spirit and sports. Emory students generally love the school, even if they don’t show it the same way as Vanderbilt students. The ones that don’t- I feel go out of their way to dislike it. </p>

<p>Based on what you’ve posted, Vanderbilt is probably the better fit for you. </p>

7

<p>@aluminum_boat‌ - That’s basically my synopsis
@dotori‌ : Please do not worry about it, you are in the b-school. Take advantage of the social events, networking, and comraderie you get there if you need the feel of traditional school spirit (as opposed to the slight quirkiness associated with the college) you like. Also, there is Greeklife that is pretty standard at every school so that is an option. But seriously, try to take advantage of the academic opportunities Emory has, especially if you are into business or entrepreneurship. At this point, I am pretty sure we are having more success and interesting things happening at the undergrad. level than many other schools including them. </p>

<p>And yes, if the traditional spirit is still what you are most concerned about, then Vanderbilt may have been the better fit (I suppose you could have done something through peabody), but regardless, if you are getting a BBA or anything, you’ll hardly regret being at Emory despite what may be more academic intensity than Peabody (I heard Peabody is a pretty laid back unit at the UG level academically whereas our b-school, not so much…). Also, I am not talking about “academic drive”, the students at Vanderbilt AND Emory both have that, but I believe the environments at each facilitate different orientations toward the academic and socialization balance such that more Emory students are more likely to exploit or explore the academic elements at a deeper level.<br>
Also, things such as honors requirements (like students cannot get honors in Emory College by just obtaining a high GPA. You can in the business school though, but the business school also has other intellectual activities such as case and business plan competitions that are great for networking and developing an innovative spirit. Vanderbilt does not host a hack-a-thon yet. Emory does despite not having an engineering school. They also do not have undergrad. case competitions…) departmental and school wide awards/recognition also cause a different sort of achievement orientation (academic “drive” could often mean is serious about academics for the sake of doing well as many people are). If one school has most departments awarding top departmental awards based upon GPA and the other having it as some mixture of academic achievement through grades, writing/other intellectual works (such as a thesis), and the like (maybe taking certain level courses), there will be a different vibe on the latter campus as opposed to the other. </p>

<p>I am saying that you should take advantage of that difference that Emory has versus them while also realizing that the business school offers better social opportunities for those who really, really like that sort of thing as well. As for my concern, it’s legitimate. Some students come in with this bitterness of Emory not having football or a big D-1 sports scene or the type of spirit generated from that thing, and while they maintain their academic “drive” (ability to care about their courses to some extent), they usually are not the people taking full advantage of those sorts of opportunities (whether they be formal academic opportunities or the more “on the spot” things like participating in hack-a-thons, case competitions, or competing for grants from the sustainability office, whatever). Basically, they were almost blinded by the fact that there isn’t D-1 level “rah rah”. Don’t be, we offer so much more and overall the place is pretty fun (SPC does a pretty good job with events and concerts and again, the b-school hosts many of its own events). So again, I think once you get here and engage in all of the stuff, you will indeed get over it. There is quite a bit going on at Emory lately for you to get involved in or excited about. Emory is literally very much about being involved in things and less about cheering for a team or boosting the school unrelentingly. </p>

8

<p>I say all this to basically say that, despite what many believe going or applying to these schools they are not “the same except Vandy is funner”. They are completely different though they are regarded at similar levels of prestige. It has less to do with the students that matriculate (okay, that has an effect because Emory is far more diverse demographically) and more to do with how they are structured. For example, we only have ECAS, Oxford, business, and nursing with Oxford and ECAS having an overwhelming majority of the students. Vanderbilt has much larger chunks in engineering and Peabody (they have a music school as well) than we have in business and nursing (so we have a larger percentage than they do pursuing “liberal arts” as opposed to UG professional degrees). I worry that you came with the false assumption that they were similar academically, but one was more fun. It isn’t the case, however, the fact that it is false can actually serve as an advantage as I already explained (did I mention the rise of interdisciplinary majors and the tons of joint majors and concentrations which are much more common at Emory). Just get involved (and no, it is not hard for transfers to do so). Whatever reason you initially chose Emory for, make it come to life once you get there. Feel free to second guess, but don’t dwell too much. Also notice how Vanderbilt only ranks marginally higher despite having SAT’s dramatically higher (many schools with lower SAT’s have higher ranks), so I would kind of ignore things like that because they don’t matter that much. Vanderbilt has always had higher SAT’s than Emory for well over 5 years now (maybe 10ish or more to be honest) even when Emory admissions folks were misreporting. To me that implies that selectivity and the graduation rate (which can also affect peer and counselor scores I guess) are the main things holding Emory’s rank back. I don’t know about theirs (maybe endowment). But regardless, I find those rankings don’t match academic rigor and quality but so well (many schools between 15 and 20, including Emory and Vanderbilt, would not be ranked as such if it did, and would instead be ranked lower). </p>

9

<p>Most colleges require that you attend their school or at least 2 years. You probably wouldn’t be able to transfer to really anywhere seeing that you are a rising junior.</p>

10

<p>On an unrelated note, does anyone know the reason for why emory’s application pool and acceptance rate is so different than vandys? They used to be the same in 2006 and then vandy shot up and now have 30k apps while emory has 17k.</p>

<p>Also, why doesnt emory have an engineering school? It seems so STEM and business driven, I thought it was weird that emory did that partnership with georgia tech as opposed to having their own department. A greater degree of majors offered would help with raising the applicant pool.</p>

11

<p>@dotori‌ Emory has worse marketing (it doesn’t send out as much material as other schools), technically has a lower profile and receives more of a niche applicant pool (like 1/2 is ED1/ED2 so they are comfortable w/no D-1 sports for example and are more well-informed about Emory’s full offerings academically which is ultimately what drew them). In addition, Vanderbilt can be helped by its D-1 sports now-a-days (as Duke was and still is). Emory wants to remain more liberal arts oriented and having a business school already hurts this, and an engineering school would hurt more (let us no mention the cost of starting it). Emory does not always make decisions (other than the one to misreport SAT’s which had a marginal effect) based upon whether or not it would add more applications. In addition, it would be difficult to start a new engineering department when you have the competition across town and weak undergraduate divisions of physics, math, and computer science. Emory is much stronger in natural sciences and chemistry for example than many schools with engineering entities of their own. Chemistry instruction is much stronger at Emory for most courses, than say, Georgia Tech. This is perhaps because the numbers taking such courses are smaller. I am willing to bet if Emory got an engineering school, we would have to dramatically grow the number of faculty and would also increase enrollment in such intro. science courses such that the quality declines. We could say goodbye to Ochem instructors that teach near or higher than the rigor levels of instructors at places like MIT, Harvard, etc or biology instructors that teach using the case method, something not really seen in large intro. courses at other top privates. The same could be said for biology, yet Georgia Tech has a BME major for which some biology dept. courses are a foundation (they need to get out of here with those simple, watered down all multiple choice general chemistry exams. The difference is even more stark for ochem courses and instructors. Similar differences can be seen between Emory and Vanderbilt’s chemistry department). Though, on the whole, there is just a lot more intentional innovation in teaching science at Emory and Tech than at Vandy and a lot of other schools. WashU is good though) and I think it is a good thing, though it would be nice if physics, math, and CS were strengthened at the UG level. I think that is much more important than raising the number of applicants.</p>

<p>Also, I am more concerned with getting stronger applicants than more applicants. Chicago, for example, had a much smaller app. pool than its competition and had as strong of an applicant pool as it does today with NO engineering school opened yet, which goes to show that app. numbers may be more of a function of marketing (their tactics changed dramatically under the new dean of admissions) than academic offerings. I would imagine if Emory learned how to effectively market some of the strongest academic entities (not just say that we have them and they are good, but tell how they are good, what opps. and programs they offer, etc), we would get applicants that usually would not consider us. For example, if students knew the number and level of prizes offered by the chemistry department, they certainly would entertain it over other near ranked schools such as Vanderbilt (our chem dept is definitely stronger than theirs in so many ways). If it was broadcasted that Emory hosted a computational neuroscience fellowship (literally, you will not even find this on the NBB or biology website. It is just hidden so those exploring Emory for those majors will not know such a program exists) for undergraduates and perhaps marketed some of the more innovative project based or special topics courses in the NBB department, it would attract more quantitatively/scientifically inclined students wanting to study quantitative aspects of the life sciences as opposed to humdrum pre-health students choosing a life science degree out of convenience. It’s all in marketing.</p>

<p>Emory must more effectively market its academic and cultural uniqueness or else people will indeed assume: “It’s basically like X but without Y” which is often hardly the whole story. We don’t need an engineering school. Again, I don’t think it would be that good, and the last thing we need is a mediocre department drawing students who “settled” (suggesting relatively mediocre students) for the program at Emory. We need to make sure that things are in place for any new initiatives or programs such that they can and do rise to excellence and become truly marketable and I think other programs have much more potential and costs much less than an engineering school (QTM has huge potential and so does Human Health for that matter, as it is a dept that requires a senior thesis so will thus draw more serious students). I for one am pleased that they now use YouTube to show off the religion department which is absolutely amazing just based on my limited experiences with it. Perhaps Environmental Science should be shown off next. These two are quiet, but excellent programs. </p>

<p>Also, I think the STEM and business majors are less prevalent than you think (a lot of STEM majors are double majors in a social science or humanities major for example). They are certainly a large and loud group, but there is a huge amount going on in the social sciences (and even humanities to some degree). Emory is just stereotypical for a research university in that the sciences and the top business are a principle thing that is marketed. In reality, the distribution of majors is a bit more complex and kind of reflects a liberal arts core. Also, Emory students have been fine being creative and innovative without the engineering school (Solazyme came from Emory grads). A reinvigorated non-engineering science curriculum can obviously have the same effect (one member of solazyme took a project based genetics lab for example instead of the regular. Often projects from rigorous or differently designed courses can lead to bigger ideas. I would know as I took the ORDER seminar which often produces that same effect). </p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>We are who we are and we’re not trying to contort ourselves for the rankings, despite the actions of a few people who used to work in institutional research. This is opposed to Vanderbilt, where the largest major is Human and Organizational Development–a cobbled together faux business degree offered by an “education” school that has long since sold out any commitment to the field of education at the undergraduate level for increased SAT scores and selectivity. Unfortunately, very similar to Northwestern’s school of education and social policy.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In the words of President Wagner, we founded an engineering school. We’re very proud of it, and we’re not going to make another. You might know it as Georgia Tech.</p>

13

<p>@aigiqinf‌ : Yeah, those higher SAT scores are really paying off lol. </p>

<p>Vandy: <a href=“Four Fulbright honorees named at Vanderbilt | Vanderbilt University”>http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2014/05/fulbright-2014/&lt;/a&gt;
Emory: <a href=“Emory's strengths yield record percentage of Fulbright grants”>http://news.emory.edu/stories/2014/07/er_fullbright_grants/campus.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Perhaps they need to refine their selection criteria for admissions as this shouldn’t be happening if their students are better. </p>

<p>At least their engineering dept. racked them up a lot of NSF fellowships…(I suspect that engineering is closer to pure basic science and is more likely to get it. Emory got 3 from chemistry which is impressive, 1 student being a truly outstanding undergraduate and one being an alum already at Caltech).</p>

14

<p>

</p>

<p>Well crap. We need one. </p>

<p>Yea, I agree that Emory is very academically oriented. With fewer “distractions” and alternatives than Vanderbilt. But the distractions are still there if you’re willing to look. </p>

15

<p>One persons “distractions” are an-others “life enriching experience”. As a Vandy fan you are probably being a bit harsh on Emory. It’s a great university, with a happy student body and you will have access to educational and career opportunities that few have. You will be in Atlanta (not stuck in a pee-wee town) and have access to all Atlanta has to offer including the rah-rah of the NFL, MLB, and NBA. No one university is perfect and most students aren’t at their “dream university”. As a junior it’s time to focus on your career, internships, and school. Make the most of your opportunities and go kick some butt. Remember the grass is greener where it gets water.</p>

16

<p>@aluminum_boat‌ : I disagree. We don’t need one until the big 3 that typically support engineering get better. Notice the places that started (or will start) them recently such as Harvard (okay, perhaps theirs was just well hidden) and Chicago are very strong in CS, math, and physics at the grad. and undergrad. level. With the state of our depts. right now and the level of the intro. and intermediate courses (okay, physics is an exception with intermediate), they will essentially be feeding crap into the engineering courses. The foundation in “advanced” (say the linear alg, diff. eq, and multi level) would be non-uniform and in general weak. Let us not talk about physics 151/152 which behaves as if it is partially catering to pre-healths (the 141/142 sequence has higher instructional quality on average, seriously). Unless such an engineering school offered its own separate math, cs, and physics courses (which would cost crap tons of money), there is no point whatsoever right now. We should really just stick to what we are good with or throw lots of money at those 3 depts, let them attempt to fix themselves, and then maybe explore the option (whether an engineering school or applied/technological science option) in the distant future. We could have potential with maybe BME and ChemE, but again, the big 3 also help support those. The current math courses are not even good enough to help most students with pchem, let alone a whole engineering curriculum with many required courses the same caliber of or higher than pchem. </p>

<p>Also, you need not look…there are these things called “Eagle Row”, “The Tower” (and soon Harris lol), and “Atlanta”. Only real thing missing is home grown D-1 sports (however, I would call participating in intramural sports or the crap tons of orgs. and events on campus a distraction). I suppose you mean media hyped stereotypical distractions one associates with a college. </p>

17

<p>So bernie12, are you saying Emory is not a good place to go for kid who is strong at math/sci? (Taking DiffEQ, Multi, Phys C in High School). Sounds like Chem is good, but the rest of the depts (Math, Phys) are weak.</p>

18

<p>I attended neither, but my impression is that the academics at these two stalwarts are pretty equal.</p>

<p>In the end, that is what matters most.</p>

<p>Honestly… you go to Vandy or Emory because you get university-level course and major offerings, quality teaching, and LAC (or LAC-approaching) class sizes. </p>

<p>My alma mater, UW-Madison, is top-20 in Engineering overall and in nearly every sub-heading. Vandy is not.</p>

<p>So…</p>

<p>While Vandy might have an Engineering school, it is not world-renowned. So unless you want to major in it, I would not consider it in your decision.</p>

19

<p>@Skrunch‌ : Physics has much more rigorous course work than math. As in, most students in intermediate and advanced physics courses are generally more challenged than those in math (analytical mechanics and quantum for example are very challenging and so are most others). In math, it can be very hit or miss and you must try to get strong instructors. QSS has the most promise in terms of delivering a rigorous quantitative background to someone who already has experience in math. It along with physics that is. It’s just that intro. physics courses for those with a math background will be a joke. Math is hit or miss at every level and then has so many students majoring that networking is not as easy as in physics or CS (two majors that “look out” for students). </p>

<p>@prezbucky‌ : There are some differences that you can actually notice when you go to departmental websites for example. Most prospective students do not know what to look for or how to gauge such differences, but the departmental websites, course offerings, requirements, awards offered (and how students earn them) is very revealing to the strength (or at least orientation) of a school at least at the departmental level. For example, I would assume that places like Madison and Michigan have much more of a math culture because they have “nerdy” things like integration competitions and many more networking/academic events for UG’s in math/math oriented departments. I would also notice things like Emory having an Undergraduate chemistry research symposium and Vandy not. Or Emory having study abroad options through that dept. and another school not. You can at least notice differences at the dept. Also, honors requirements, as I’ve mentioned can induce a different academic culture or type of rigor on campuses. There are many differences in how these campuses approach academics even though they are regarded as equal in caliber. I think these differences in approach (at departmental or school wide level) are important but difficult to discern or even care about when you are just a prospective student looking at a series of prestigious schools to attend. When they are similarly ranked, one tends to ignore differences in academic cultural differences (again, because they assume that the academic experience and structure must be the same because they are ranked the same. We know this is false as a place like Duke and Chicago can’t be anymore different. But again, we are naive when going through this process and often flat out do not care). and then maybe pay more attention to social culture and the like</p>